Level feelings, yeah, again

[Spacebux]

It seems to come from long time posters desperate to throw their weight around towards the 'newbies' by the looks of it. Isn't there a friendlier way of saying this?

Someone else got totally hammered on here for putting coloured text into their post. What a terrible crime to commit - quick get Pav to ban them as well.

Cheers, mate, for coming to my rescue. And, yes, it was I who committed the ever-so-flagrant-foul of coloring (colouring) my text. Even though the board permits text of different color (colour), I should have used my ESP senses to know I should not actually use it. I'm sorry, my power to use the force is diminished.

If, Nick, I get banned from this sight - wow, how small you people really are...!

And, btw, Nick, posting that last comment about where to find liberals in OZ land, ... is that itself not a political statement worth banning by Pav???

Heaven forbid...

[Spacebux]

Just for reference, the debates about level feelings have been going on for a long time.

Thanks, Myshkin. I may try playing w/out level feelings in my next round.

[meJustmeNotyou]

On the side issues of this thread (non level feeling words that slipped in)....

2 things....

1) it's more than understandable why these guys running this site don't want politics coming into play.... in a normal environment i wouldn't care if the anti obama poster said what he said but here they want people to not be divissive... just get along and be friendly etc etc.... politics brings out enmity... not good for this game.... either way all's cool now so no big deal.

2) somneone else posted the term "bull shit".... or something..... someone else pointed out that :"probably most people reading these forums are not american"..... i put the two together and have to say ok most may not be americans but in america, the term bull shit, is something a lot of parents don't want their children reading in a forum (it is considered cussing which is considered bad by a lot of people, most, especialy for children).... and that too, will be bad for this game, if you have people leaving it because of such talk here.

just saying... i'm NOT mad at anyone (i can take the cussing and say that myself on occasion, and i even talk politics a lot)...

it's best not to be using those terms and i think people should be friendly asked to not use them... as the other person was "initialy" friendly asked to stop with the politics.

just my 2 cents.

(bows and exits..... kicking a drolem in the face on the way out)

[AnonymousHero]

Even though the board permits text of different color (colour), I should have used my ESP senses to know I should not actually use it. I'm sorry, my power to use the force is diminished.

No need for ESP. When one joins a forum/community it is usually wise to try to pick up how one is expected to write/behave.

[Spacebux]

No need for ESP. When one joins a forum/community it is usually wise to try to pick up how one is expected to write/behave.

You guys just can't let it go, can you? You obviously feel the need to get your last word in, so I will let you have it.

(Maybe you should re-read what TJS posted.)

Enjoy.

[Magnate]

I'm now really tempted to make my sig "Long time poster desperate to throw his weight around".

Why not just go the whole hog and make it "#1 poster, ner ner ni ner ner".

Oh. I see what I did there. Ooops.

[Nick]

And, btw, Nick, posting that last comment about where to find liberals in OZ land, ... is that itself not a political statement worth banning by Pav???

This was a fairly obscure joke - the Liberal Party of Australia is the main party on the right of the political spectrum - get it?

It really was intended as a genuine apology. I think my first post was an overreaction. Tell me if you still feel aggrieved, and I'll apologise again, but I suspect everyone's already sick of this...

Personally I think we're all just getting old and grumpy

[AnonymousHero]

You guys just can't let it go, can you? You obviously feel the need to get your last word in, so I will let you have it.

(Maybe you should re-read what TJS posted.)

Enjoy.

I hadn't read what TJS posted. It wouldn't have made me not post what I did (lovely double or triple negatives there), but there you go.

I *am* sorry that you'd received such a bollocking over what you obviously perceived as a throwaway comment, but people really want this forum to be just about the game(s). (And for good reasons.)

[Spacebux]

This was a fairly obscure joke - the Liberal Party of Australia is the main party on the right of the political spectrum - get it?

It really was intended as a genuine apology. I think my first post was an overreaction. Tell me if you still feel aggrieved, and I'll apologise again, but I suspect everyone's already sick of this...

Personally I think we're all just getting old and grumpy

Alright, look, we all grab a bud of beer and go take out our frustration on small kobolds, ok?

[Starhawk]

I'm sorry, my power to use the force is diminished.

Hey, pal. The Force should be capitalized. Show proper respect to what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together.

Ok... I can't keep typing this with a straight face... bwahahahahaha

[TJS]

My apologies - it probably was a bit over the top. It was the second comment in a short space of time, and I didn't want it becoming a trend ... but I guess that's just my opinion.

I'm now really tempted to make my sig "Long time poster desperate to throw his weight around".

Heh good reply, fair play. My comment was probably OTT as well.

On topic, I don't think level feelings would be all that bad if they didn't put a big emphasis on boring things like jelly pits.

Talking of jelly pits, does anyone actually find them fun? I find all pits/nests a bit boring and a bit strange as well. Would a hundred odd dragons of exactly the same type all live in exactly the same place (and in a perfectly rectangular room as well)?

They also are quite dull from a gameplay perspective since you either can deal with them easily (eg. fire immunity and red dragon pit) or have to avoid them completely.

I'd prefer more irregular pits that are much smaller in scale (perhaps 8-10 monsters) dotted around the level. Would be good to have a nice amount of treasure in there as well.

[Timo Pietilä]

Heh good reply, fair play. My comment was probably OTT as well.

On topic, I don't think level feelings would be all that bad if they didn't put a big emphasis on boring things like jelly pits.

Talking of jelly pits, does anyone actually find them fun? I find all pits/nests a bit boring and a bit strange as well. Would a hundred odd dragons of exactly the same type all live in exactly the same place (and in a perfectly rectangular room as well)?

They also are quite dull from a gameplay perspective since you either can deal with them easily (eg. fire immunity and red dragon pit) or have to avoid them completely.

I'd prefer more irregular pits that are much smaller in scale (perhaps 8-10 monsters) dotted around the level. Would be good to have a nice amount of treasure in there as well.

I clear undead pits. Those are quite interesting. Demon pits are maybe least interesting because they either are too easy or too hard, but very rarely anything between (and if the demon pit has horned reapers all that is left after a while is them and greater balrogs and pit fiends).

Jelly pits, zoos and undead pits have now treasure in them. Sometimes they are well worth clearing up, sometimes not. What I hate in them are unmovable monsters with tele-to spells. Q:s in zoos, and drujs in graveyards.

[fizzix]

Jelly pits, zoos and undead pits have now treasure in them. Sometimes they are well worth clearing up, sometimes not. What I hate in them are unmovable monsters with tele-to spells. Q:s in zoos, and drujs in graveyards.

I've requested that Qs lose the ANIMAL flag. I still think this is a good idea, but many are opposed.

I dunno what to do about the drujs though. I think those are going to have to stay.

[Philip]

My personal opinion is that level feelings as they're currently implemented are useless. Most of the good artifacts I've found have been on levels with less than good feelings. I'd pretty much vote to abolish them in their present incarnations.

I don't have very good ideas for this, but I think I would prefer a gradual revealing of the level in advance. Perhaps this would occur when you are in proximity to a good item, or dangerous monster. Kind of like a vague form of ESP + detection. Of course you'd need time to get these feelings, so you'd have to be in proximity to this monster or item for some number of turns.

The logic would be, as you approach the lair of a dangerous monsters or group of monsters, you notice their presence based off of refuse on the floor and marks on the hallways, or the sounds of their snoring. Magical items create an aura around them, that pervades through everything. You could also increase the probability of getting this closeness feel if you have search on. Maybe that would make a use for this pretty much unused option for new players. You aren't just searching for hidden doors in adjacent squares, you are searching for clues as to what lay in the level ahead.

You could even make it class dependent, so rangers get a strong feel for animals and warm blooded monsters, rogues and warriors get strong feelings for weaponry, mages get strong feelings for jewelry and magic items. priests and paladins get strong feelings for evil creatures.

I found this on one of the other threads, fizzix's idea. And this seems like the same thing, from the Invisible Stalker:

Perhaps it's just that I've watched too many Woody Allen movies, but lately I've been thinking that what Angband needs is a feeling of anxiety. Allow me to explain.

Level feelings are currently broken. I never liked them anyway, so I would prefer to see them replaced rather than repaired. And what I would like to replace them with is anxiety. Here is how I envisage it working.

There would be an indicator of your character's current level of anxiety. Perhaps the best one would be the color in which his name is displayed. Green for calm, red for extremely anxious, and various shades of yellow and orange in between.

Everything potentially bad would induce a certain amount of anxiety: out of depth monsters, traps, cursed items. The closer the danger, the greater the effect.

This would be pretty much useless in the middle and endgame, when you have detection, but it would be helpful for low level characters.

Anxiety would be a "special ability". Some races and classes would be more anxious than others. In general, the more fragile races and classes would be more anxious, understandably. This would have a mild balancing effect.

What would more anxious mean? Several things. Greater range. A greater range of anxiety levels. Better adapted to the character, e.g. checking for resistance holes and matching attacks. Faster response time.

Of course, level feelings depend on good things as well as bad, so maybe there should be a second attribute, excitement, which would respond to out of depth items, artifacts, etc.

I might try to code something like this during the summer vacation if people think it is a good idea. So what do you think? Do you want to feel anxiety?

the results were:
Bad idea 1 vote
Good idea 4 votes
Who cares 16 votes.
I think having a feeling about a whole level is wrong, and giving people a hint something weird is going on is also good.

[Spacebux]

Demon pits are maybe least interesting because they either are too easy or too hard, but very rarely anything between (and if the demon pit has horned reapers all that is left after a while is them and greater balrogs and pit fiends).

TRAMPLING needs to be done away with. I don't see how TRAMPLING by any mob improves the game. Have you seen the nastiness a Blubbering Icky Thing can do? (my humble opinion) U-pits would be much better w/out the Trampling. I saw poor Grishnakh trampled once, fortunately, since he's a unique, he got to come back.

Jelly pits, zoos and undead pits have now treasure in them. Sometimes they are well worth clearing up, sometimes not. What I hate in them are unmovable monsters with tele-to spells. Q:s in zoos, and drujs in graveyards.

The topic though, whether pits should add to level feelings or not: no they should not. They should add, if possible, to the sense of danger - i.e., I don't think you should see "this place seems peaceful" when an undead pit lurks elsewhere in the level. Items in a pit, however, do add to the level feelings, which is fair game.


My issue with level feelings is too much information is given away about the level in terms of what's lying on the floor. E.g., you know you won't find a artifact or other great weapon in a "good" or "very good" feeling. My request for more ambiguity is to make it so the surprise value is greater. A level with greater vault containing a huge amount of loot may wind up being a "good feeling" level. Experienced players know what to expect from "a little bit lucky" levels, "good" levels, "very good", "excellent", and so on. Once items on a level have been generated, the RNG would rate the level and then say chose a feeling from a range of positive or negative feelings.

I would love to see a message like, "you have a sense of jubilee and impending doom" - i.e., you might be on a level with greater vault containing both good loot and great danger. It might turn out, however, one was also on a level with a stack of potions of charisma and a giant pit or a couple of uniques.