playtesting new item distribution - r2025

**bron** · August 2, 2010, 17:44

Originally posted by bebo

is the lack of rLight a serious problem?

No, not really. You have rBlind, so it's only the actual damage you need to worry about. Huan is the only serious threat with Light breath since he moves so fast and can do full (400) damage. I think the Phoenix is the only other character (beside Huan) that beathes light at full strength. Ethereal Dragons can do about 300, but they only move "quickly" and so individually they are not a serious threat to you at this point.

**fizzix** · August 2, 2010, 17:51

yeah, three stacks of holy might arrows in 450 game turns is way too many. That should be more like 0.5

This version would set all sorts of speed records for game completion.

**Derakon** · August 2, 2010, 18:04

It can be tricky to determine if an individual game is a statistical outlier or not, though. We'll need more feedback from other playtesters as to the frequency of Holy Might ammo before its frequency can be tweaked.

Intuitively I would think that ego-items of all types should be relatively more rare now, since equipment in general is dropped less often (in favor of dropping more consumables).

**fizzix** · August 2, 2010, 18:10

Originally posted by Derakon

It can be tricky to determine if an individual game is a statistical outlier or not, though. We'll need more feedback from other playtesters as to the frequency of Holy Might ammo before its frequency can be tweaked.

Intuitively I would think that ego-items of all types should be relatively more rare now, since equipment in general is dropped less often (in favor of dropping more consumables).

considering that I've found exactly two stacks of holy might arrows in about 15 games that have reached dlevel 99....I would say that finding three stacks in a very short game is about as likely as finding two early copies of wrath of god.

oh wait...

**Magnate** · August 2, 2010, 18:20

Originally posted by Derakon

It can be tricky to determine if an individual game is a statistical outlier or not, though. We'll need more feedback from other playtesters as to the frequency of Holy Might ammo before its frequency can be tweaked.

Intuitively I would think that ego-items of all types should be relatively more rare now, since equipment in general is dropped less often (in favor of dropping more consumables).

Are we sure that Ewert reduced the alloc_prob of ammo as well as armour and weapons? If he didn't, it will be much more common now ...

**nullfame** · August 2, 2010, 18:33

Originally posted by bebo

j) 55 Potions of Healing {!*}
k) 18 Potions of *Healing* {!*}
l) 8 Potions of Life {!*}

Wow. This is probably too much for any class. Especially 55 !healing. At 500K turns no less. I wouldn't carry !CCW at all.

I would say you are safe to win.

mass banishment scrolls are still too rare

OTOH you have 0% fail on teleport other, 37 !rMana, and 20 ?destruction so I'd say this is not such a big problem. I wonder how many rods of teleport other you found along the way. 20 ?destruction, 14 ?banishment and 4 ?massBanishment is plenty to deal with summons.

In my observations Angband is a game of hoarding. Save all your best healing, scrolls, and ammo until the very end. I might use 1-2 of the above along the way if I find myself in a dire situation. The kind of drops I'm seeing, and yes we a have a small sample and not everyone posts dumps, it seems like it becomes a lot more viable to use some of these in the high-end unique fights. For better or for worse.

**fizzix** · August 2, 2010, 19:22

Originally posted by nullfame

In my observations Angband is a game of hoarding. Save all your best healing, scrolls, and ammo until the very end. I might use 1-2 of the above along the way if I find myself in a dire situation. The kind of drops I'm seeing, and yes we a have a small sample and not everyone posts dumps, it seems like it becomes a lot more viable to use some of these in the high-end unique fights. For better or for worse.

It's a pendulum swinging issue. We'll adjust them back down if they are out of hand.

**Derakon** · August 2, 2010, 19:39

We just need to remember that the pendulum is already unbalanced...

**Pete Mack** · August 2, 2010, 19:40

They are out of hand, though I have no idea how Bebo managed to find all those potions. I must not be chasing the right monsters.

**ewert** · August 2, 2010, 22:18

Well a priest (clairvoyance and no need for potions of healing really anyways) ...

I agree that ammo is a tad too common. Unlike armor/weapons, it was in general sense left untouched, so yes it got more common. Guess will have to learn that svn thingy so can post changes for the guys with change-rights.

Played my 2nd kobold warrior to finalfinal endgame, this time 1 rod of detection, erm. I think we ought to move it a tad deeper and up it's allowance slightly. As for rods of speed and healing, well how many do we intend people to have? I have found speed with 1 endgame and healing with 1 endgame, of course a single rod of healing is not very useful but the speed is nice. Playing only warriors so that the consumables issue is "the worst". Try farming at dlvl >95, considering they are as common as rods of id, I'm sure you can find rods of speed in a fair bit of farming.

This game I played most of the game with a couple of different ego DSM. Cool.

Also there are some balance issues regarding what is too much and what is enough consumables. This game I didn't really have that many healing potions, I didn't even use many by endgame, as I had a kickass weapon again (haha undeads got eaten by 270x6). And it wasn't a superfast game (well lack of speed for a long time does that too). So are we supposed to be able to use the healing pots before Sauron and Morgoth? IMHO tackling charge drainers with consumables before the end two should be allowed, this will use some consumables prior the final fights too.

Personally I like the statswap potions now. Before it was so that I almost never saw more than 1-2 of them before statgain. Lets face it, there are tons of items where their range of use is limited, and if they are rare in that range, they are in a sense pretty useless. For example mushrooms of emergency are now a semistable addition to my inventory before potions of healing start to show up more.

I really need to kick my ass to play smarter and win that stupid kobold warrior. I think I'll go standarts next game...

**ewert** · August 2, 2010, 23:24

Just a FYI, I went through the object.txt file based on more games, and info from testers:

Ammo was brought down to normal. It was an oversight: armor/weapons were made more rare, but ammo was not, thus all good/great objects were heavily in favor of ammo (I think). They should be more in line with the other stuff now.

Some tweaking of stuff, like -Detection would be a deeper item but more common, so that warriors can graduate from (bunch-o-rods) to (some-rods). And get monster detection too... We'll see if this is too much...

A lil decrease of healing potions and some staves. Anyways, farming at dlvl>95 should still be insanely better than what it was before, as lots of junk is removed by that level from the tables, so last two fight consumables should come easier at dlvl>95 atleast if you are still missing some when you get there (if you have fought your way there).

Submitting the file to (whoever can put it in). Made from newest nightly. And I learned SVN!

It is a .diff file zipped up...

PS. Erm not sure if private messages went through, so Magnate / d_m please take a peek.

Attached Files

object_txt.zip (1.9 KB, 181 views)

**bebo** · August 3, 2010, 09:59

Originally posted by Pete Mack

They are out of hand, though I have no idea how Bebo managed to find all those potions. I must not be chasing the right monsters.

this:

Originally posted by ewert

Well a priest (clairvoyance and no need for potions of healing really anyways) ...

Actually I think clairvoyance is a bit too powerful atm, we should probably increase the mana cost.

Originally posted by ewert

Personally I like the statswap potions now. Before it was so that I almost never saw more than 1-2 of them before statgain. Lets face it, there are tons of items where their range of use is limited, and if they are rare in that range, they are in a sense pretty useless. For example mushrooms of emergency are now a semistable addition to my inventory before potions of healing start to show up more.

I agree with you here, it's just that at least in my game those potions were a bit too common. Regarding mushrooms the only ones I actually use are second sight and vigor, the other ones should probably be improved a bit.

Originally posted by ewert

Some tweaking of stuff, like -Detection would be a deeper item but more common, so that warriors can graduate from (bunch-o-rods) to (some-rods). And get monster detection too... We'll see if this is too much...

A lil decrease of healing potions and some staves. Anyways, farming at dlvl>95 should still be insanely better than what it was before, as lots of junk is removed by that level from the tables, so last two fight consumables should come easier at dlvl>95 atleast if you are still missing some when you get there (if you have fought your way there).

Good idea. You should also take a look at -mapping (i found 1-2 in my whole game) and -speed (found none, but at the end I wasn't even botherind to id unidentified rods, so...)

Originally posted by nullfame

OTOH you have 0% fail on teleport other, 37 !rMana, and 20 ?destruction so I'd say this is not such a big problem. I wonder how many rods of teleport other you found along the way. 20 ?destruction, 14 ?banishment and 4 ?massBanishment is plenty to deal with summons.

yeah, you are probably right, I was speaking from an abstract perspective. Re. -TelOther I think I found only 3 before starting to scum dlvls95+ , at which point I realized I necer even used them having 0% fail and just squelched them.

btw - I won!

**ewert** · August 3, 2010, 10:11

Well you really only need 1-2 -mapping TBH, IMHO so sounds good to me ... I know one is enough for me mostly.

**fizzix** · August 3, 2010, 14:50

re: clairvoyance

How about it maps the entire level and detects traps for the entire level. I'd even be ok if it detected all monsters on the entire level, or better yet had a 1/5 chance of detecting monsters, so you'd know if there was a room full of time or gravity hounds, or what type of monster pit is on the other side of the level. However, it detects either no objects, or only objects in normal detection range.

playtesting new item distribution - r2025

playtesting new item distribution - r2025

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