Start at clvl/dlvl 20

[PowerDiver]

That's not enough of a penalty. It basically takes all of the hardest parts of rolling a priest or mage out of the game.

I'm still hoping none of this thread ever actually makes it into the game...

I agree, but sometimes you can't fight change and your best approach is to try to affect the direction of the change. Would CL10 at DL20 with -2 to all stats be reasonable? Never mind, it's just a bad idea beyond fixing.

My current priest has had a nervewracking set of close calls and got to DL20 at CL12. That's the kind of gameplay that keeps me coming back.

[Djabanete]

The early game is short and sweet. Why remove it?

I would never play with this option.

[LostTemplar]

IMHO early game is essential, it is the only reason to value character life in midgame, it should be non trivial to get to clvl 20.

[Derakon]

Okay, sounds like this idea is pretty universally unliked. That's fine. To be honest, when I made it I wasn't thinking so much of the mage and priest classes, which, it's true, have a much harder time making it to deep depths than the more melee-capable classes. I suppose it doesn't make sense to have an option that heavily biases towards or away from specific classes (aside for things like ironman practicality).

[Djabanete]

Okay, sounds like this idea is pretty universally unliked. That's fine. To be honest, when I made it I wasn't thinking so much of the mage and priest classes, which, it's true, have a much harder time making it to deep depths than the more melee-capable classes. I suppose it doesn't make sense to have an option that heavily biases towards or away from specific classes (aside for things like ironman practicality).

It's an interesting idea and it actually wouldn't bother me to see it implemented as a birth option as long as some people find it fun --- I just find the early game fun and interesting, so I would set that option to No

You might want to look through the thread and tally up the responses: "I would use this option", "I wouldn't use this option", and "I would object to the addition of this option". A simple yes/no doesn't really cover it --- most people don't play ironman but don't mind that it's possible to do so.

[miyazaki]

Okay, sounds like this idea is pretty universally unliked. That's fine. To be honest, when I made it I wasn't thinking so much of the mage and priest classes, which, it's true, have a much harder time making it to deep depths than the more melee-capable classes. I suppose it doesn't make sense to have an option that heavily biases towards or away from specific classes (aside for things like ironman practicality).

It is, but it has hilighted differences in opinion and play style among players. Some people hate the first levels, others hate the middle ones. I think that minor variations in play can result in rather drastic game effects.

To be honest, my problem was with the extra clevels, rather than the dlevels. As a compromise, what if every character started with a recall level of 10. Expert players could buy an extra ?recall and start on dlvl 10, while beginning players would see no difference.

[Zikke]

I love bringing up new topics and challenging the assumptions of the game. This is all very healthy debate. It's just as constructive to come up with something new as it is to reconfirm something old.

Kudos Derakon for thinking outside the box.

[Nick]

The idea of having something like ToME's Lost Souls or Steamband's Wonderland mode is maybe one worth thinking about - I'm not sure how it would best be done in V.

[Zikke]

What is the Wonderland mode? That sounds interesting

[Hariolor]

I approve of it being easy to get to lower levels quickly (see the thread I started last week on the topic).

I do *not* like the idea of getting a CL boost commensurate with it.

I merely think it should be easier to choose your level of challenge between DL1 and DL25. It's not that there's anything wrong now, down staircases are just often frustratingly sparse (or at least hard for non-casters to find without ?detect).

[buzzkill]

What is the Wonderland mode? That sounds interesting

Wonderland mode is a feature/option available to you in Steamband. It come with a hearty disclaimer saying that it's broken, and it is, if you plan on surviving for longer than a minute or two. Basically you start at the deepest level of the dungeon with sparse equipment. Then you must traverse your way through the dungeon to the town and then back through the dungeon again to win. It's kinda like FA's thrall mode... on steroids.

[Rizwan]

Why not just include a new scroll that takes you down 10 levels. Take two of those and call me in the morning

[Therem Harth]

I don't think "Wonderland mode" is what the OP is looking for... More like a way of starting quickly. I'd say the idea of having a choice of where the dungeon starts (level 1-25) is better.

(And if you want a really fast start, well, some monsters have always offered disproportionate amounts of experience for their stats. Just find an elemental bat or dragonfly and you're golden.)

[ewert]

I think it's ... funny, that someone mentioned stairs being sparse or hard to find without ?detect.

I mean ... they are real easy to find and dive to whatever depth you want, with _detstairs or ?detstairs. :P

That's the point of the scrolls or staves, aye? =P

[Lexander]

I have only recently reached the point where I have a greater than 75% of getting to level 20 of the dungeon without death.

The problem is that once I move beyond level 20 death quickly ensues. I am learning how to survive these levels but I end up spending 95% of my time basically getting back to the same point I was at before.

The ability to simply study a specific portion of the game without having to redo all the previous stages would be wonderful. It wouldn't be like a 'true' victory but simply being able to try to understand survival in the 20-30 dungeon level range without having to go back through 1-20 yet again would be nice.

I suppose I could save my game ever twenty levels and reload over and over, but something about that is unappealing.

- Lex