Start at clvl/dlvl 20

[Hariolor]

I think it's ... funny, that someone mentioned stairs being sparse or hard to find without ?detect.

I mean ... they are real easy to find and dive to whatever depth you want, with _detstairs or ?detstairs. :P

That's the point of the scrolls or staves, aye? =P

By the time a warrior can afford/collect enough of those, he's probably gotten there already. I'm not suggesting there's anything that *needs* to be fixed. I'm just griping that when I start a new character I have to spend time on the dull stuff.

To be fair, I probably should just focus more on surviving with the characters I have - I'd reroll fewer characters that way. Problem is I play Angband like solitaire most of the time, only when I get a lucky start despite playing sloppy will I buckle down and try to win...

[Sirridan]

Despite making the script that can enable this, I actually agree that the first 20 levels shouldn't be skipped, if not to learn a lot of the useful flavors of items at least.

In any case now, my biggest pain is making sure I have either telepathy or rPoison.

[Nero]

Im to the point where I can make it to Dlvl 20 with almost every character (Mostly warriors or priests, only 1 priest to dlvl 20 though) and Its so boring, because I am having the same problem as one of the previous posters. I get to dlvl 20 with a good character and then before I can get any real experience on those levels an orc pit will wipe me out.

[Pete Mack]

@Nero --
If you can't clear an orc pit without stopping to rest, don't go near it.
In any case, you should be able to clear them with a decent starting warrior. (3 or 4 blows with a dagger (+7,+7) is usually adequate.)

[PowerDiver]

I can get any real experience on those levels an orc pit will wipe me out.

Are you hoarding beam weapons for this? Rods and wands of light or lightning beams should be saved for lots of orcs nicely lined up in a corridor or moat.

Are you getting too close to the door? As soon as you know it is there, retreat. Kill who comes to you. Then approach and retreat to fight them in bunches. I don't do this much as I'd rather line them up in the moat, but it is better than dying.

[Djabanete]

@Nero --
If you can't clear an orc pit without stopping to rest, don't go near it.

Why not? Not everyone plays for turncount. Don't you think that killing monsters nonstop is a pretty efficient way in real time of gathering items? Escaping to a rest spot and resting only takes seconds of real time.

[Derakon]

Rods of light are useful for taking out orcs (except hill orcs and uruks). They recharge every 5 turns and deal 6d8 damage in a beam. Wands of light have no recharge time, so they can do a lot of damage in a hurry.

Orcs are also hilariously weak against sleep/slow/confuse effects. Keep a wand of slow or sleep monster around if you need to run for a bit.

Peel off small groups of orcs from the main horde so you have a chance to recover between battles. If you have healing spells, cast them to speed up your health regeneration.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

Djabanete, it'll be tricky to make it back to that rest area. And it's really, really easy to screw up when you've got the arrow key (or whatever) mashed down for an extended period. It's a heckuva lot safer to remain a ways away, stripping off a good chunk of the stinky things, THEN going for the speedkills.

I also love when, say, the door's on the right edge. I cruise to the left side, getting them to chase...probably giving them a nice coupla blasts from the rods of light....THEN I play SpeedKill with those in the corridor, until I reach the right edge.

So I think the key aspect is, don't hang around the doorway.

But Nero, yeah, I think one problem might be that you're not necessarily learning from what's happening.

[d_m]

Djabanete, it'll be tricky to make it back to that rest area. And it's really, really easy to screw up when you've got the arrow key (or whatever) mashed down for an extended period. It's a heckuva lot safer to remain a ways away, stripping off a good chunk of the stinky things, THEN going for the speedkills.

I don't think you should ever have the arrow key mashed. I usually hit the arrow key, then hit space until all the messages are gone and repeat. You can still do this fast but you won't accidentally stack up move actions as easily.

[PowerDiver]

I don't think you should ever have the arrow key mashed. I usually hit the arrow key, then hit space until all the messages are gone and repeat. You can still do this fast but you won't accidentally stack up move actions as easily.

You don't have to hit the space bar repeatedly. You can hold it down to clear through the messages. Or you can set the auto-more message option.

[PowerDiver]

@Nero --
If you can't clear an orc pit without stopping to rest, don't go near it.
In any case, you should be able to clear them with a decent starting warrior. (3 or 4 blows with a dagger (+7,+7) is usually adequate.)

Why not? Not everyone plays for turncount. Don't you think that killing monsters nonstop is a pretty efficient way in real time of gathering items? Escaping to a rest spot and resting only takes seconds of real time.

Resting is dangerous.

In the first place, people usually allow themselves to get significantly damaged before going off to rest. If a wandering foe happens upon you in a weakened condition, doom could ensue. However, this is not the main problem.

Monsters spawn and monsters wake while you rest. That is truly dangerous. If you die later on to a pack of hounds spawned while you rest, you might mistakenly attribute the death to the hounds, but the real cause was resting.

Resting has its place. Ideally, you want to rest on the stairs immediately before you leave a level. Someimes you are forced to rest in other situations, or you choose to do so to clear a pit or vault or whatever. If you rest a lot, you should leave the level without any further exploration if it is at all possible. Recall to town and back if there is no staircase or trapdoor in the immediate area.

[Djabanete]

Hmm... I find that to be very true as [dlvl]/[clvl] starts approaching 2, but in the early going, my clvl keeps up just fine, and random spawns (in the first 20 dungeon levels) are practically never lethal in my experience.

However, and this is a pretty huge disclaimer, I don't play vanilla but rather entroband in vanilla town mode, so your experience is definitely worth more than mine. I was just curious about the rationale.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

To d_M: Yes, that's the far safer method...but if it's a trivial pit where you never drop below 90% of your max hit points, you can mash the arrow key. Sometimes you run halfway through the pit when the opposition starts thinning out, but that's OK.

And, of course, you have to watch out for special attacks...specifically cold-based or fire-based in this context, where the assumption is that the critters pose no threat of killing you. Ice trolls and frost giants want special attention, tho, so they don't decimate your potions. Fire giants love to make your spellbooks into ash.

To PowerDiver: interesting point about resting. I think you're being a bit overcautious, but......one thing that IS true is, you may well not have safe zones for, say, a teleport, the longer you're on a level...and you won't have warnings about what's popping. Hmm...and Banish only takes out what's on the level at the time...more can come later. So I'd say the advice is generally sound; the risk assessment for each person might vary.

BTW: One thing I love about the checkerboard rooms is they frequently have stairs. There's horrible line of sight in one of em, too, so there's little or no risk (assuming you're atop or adjacent to a stair) of someone sneaking up on you as you rest...even if it's gonna be extensive, say when using a couple recharge spells, or the like. (I actually kept Tenser's with me, with my ranger, for Enchant Weapon and Elemental Brand on arrows I found. Cast away in a situation like this....)

[Derakon]

Yes, that's the far safer method...but if it's a trivial pit where you never drop below 90% of your max hit points, you can mash the arrow key. Sometimes you run halfway through the pit when the opposition starts thinning out, but that's OK.

First, you should hold down the control key when attacking. This causes you to swing into open air if there are no enemies, rather than move.

Second, even when the pit itself poses no threat to you, incoming monsters from elsewhere can attack while you are busy with the pit. Holding down arrow keys can give those (easily much more dangerous) monsters several free turns.

[Zikke]

Wouldn't swinging into the air give them the same amount of free turns?