Mage OP

[Squeak]

I think option 1 is more interesting, but if it's not requiring any energy, what is preventing the player from continuing to cast it until they are in a favorable spot?

[Sphara]

I'd nerf (or remove) Dimension Door and a mage would still be the strongest class in the game by far. Fully controlled teleport is just something this game does not need.

I'm good keeping endgame mages as they are: super powerful. That said, having the current spell set, mage is not the hardest class to start. Necromancer and Ranger are much harder.

[Nick]

I think option 1 is more interesting, but if it's not requiring any energy, what is preventing the player from continuing to cast it until they are in a favorable spot?

Mana cost of about 80, so a strict limit on casting more then 4-5 times in succession, even if you're happy with running your mana right down.

[ewert]

I think Dimension Door could be:

Controlled phase door range port
Takes energy
As in an improved Phase Door
Low mana cost

OR

Change name to Blink Step
Have it be a zero energy controlled LoS only Phase Door
High mana cost

edit: in either case, observe Vault rules...

[Selkie]

How about there's a one in ten chance that the mage teleports into the wrong dimension when casting dimension door. In these instances it's a single combat style cell with one or two greater demons. It would really make you think twice about spamming it

[ewert]

How about there's a one in ten chance that the mage teleports into the wrong dimension when casting dimension door. In these instances it's a single combat style cell with one or two greater demons. It would really make you think twice about spamming it

Haha, in a game that is all about avoiding RNG deaths, I'd never use that spell.

[NCountr]

Waah waah Mages too powerful

What miffs me the most is I consistently now play IronMage with random artifacts---by far, the most enjoyable variant of the game for me. Either I go down or Morgoth is.

I intentionally boost townie drops and lower the cost of the d_mn mage books; otherwise, I'd spend more than 2 hours drumming up enough cash to buy the base 3-books. And don't get me started on finding books 2-3 in the dungeon. I've yet to play a single round where I find any copy of book 2-3 before 1000' (even though they're supposed to be available past level 500'). Any mage without books 2-3 is mince-meat between 700' ~ 1200', depending on gear and mobs. Needless to say, 80% of my deaths occur at level 0 as Battle Scarred Veterans often toss me like a rag-dolled trooper in Battlefront.

What really miffs me to no end is taking great pains NOT to off Smeagol before 1000' so his drops will be possibly marginally better, only to find his corpse is void of anything but rotten smells..! may drop one exceptional item..... ha! Right... . The humor of my RNG.

Yes, the game in general, regardless of class!!! is won or lost by 2000'. 2000'+, as another astute poster mentioned, is just game management. Doesn't matter what class of character. That is the nature of the game! Why do you consistently drone on and on about how over-powered mages are? This has been a cliche topic for more than a decade now.

The problem goes back in time to before Angband was Rogue.

◦ Arrows (+3, +2) shot from a long-bow were boring.

So someone started making more and more powerful items and weapons.

◦ Then the mobs got too boring to beat. Ancient multi-hued dragons weren't all that great any more.

So someone beefed up the mobs. Except, clever players found that wands of Wall Making were far more useful than originally intended.

◦ Waah, waah, we gotta nerf those wands!
◦ Right you are, we're going to remove them from the game! Damn cheaters!!!

...and so on.

Players will play and consume the game creatively. Stop trying to corral everyone into playing the game the same way as you do! THAT is boooooring. I don't want to play the game the same way you do. I do it my way, you do it yours.

Dimension Door should have been implemented LONG AGO. Yes, I was vouching for a directional Phase Door back in version 3, but the Mods wouldn't have it. Now we finally get it .. and, yeah, waaah, it's too good. I personally have yet to use it.

To fix Dimension Door, just have Phase Door increase in likelihood as Mage level increases, that the mage re-appears in the direction and distance aimed for. Or, keep Dimension Door as is, as a separate higher level spell.

[Pete Mack]

Start with less than all available stat points and you will get enough gold for book 2 if not book 3.

[NCountr]

Start with less than all available stat points and you will get enough gold for book 2 if not book 3.

I roll and re-roll until I get the stats I want to start with. I don't do points.

[wv_wxman]

Another issue with mages is the frequency and power of restore mana items. My most recent mage winner had 25+ Restore Mana potions and around 10 Staves of the Magi at the end. This, plus FastCast, makes it real easy to take out Morgoth via endless Mana Storming. Perhaps restore mana items should be made rarer and/or restore only a portion of mana?

[NCountr]

Long ago, townies dropped stuff. Store owners bargained. They even bought potions of Sleep when they weren't recognized.

Now, they don't even tell you what's in an item until you buy it?!?!

Metal Cap of Wisdom (+2, +1) (??)

What is up with that?

And lava in town?!?! Which, by the way, you get a warning before you step on (which is lovely), but down in the dungeon, even though you've ID'd a trap...no similar warning message before you accidentally step on it?

The current trend in game design seems more interested in curbing intelligent play than actually making the game more interesting.

[NCountr]

Another issue with mages is the frequency and power of restore mana items. My most recent mage winner had 25+ Restore Mana potions and around 10 Staves of the Magi at the end. This, plus FastCast, makes it real easy to take out Morgoth via endless Mana Storming. Perhaps restore mana items should be made rarer and/or restore only a portion of mana?

Again - here is someone trying to penalize how mages play. I actually don't use Mana Channel. How you play the game is up to you. Gripes like this can go to /dev/null for all I care.

[NCountr]

Want to improve the game?

1. Remove "TIME" attacks -- dumbest advent in the history of the game.
2. Have a Birth Option to remove Cavern levels. I cannot stand those; they are a complete waste of a potential dungeon level---never a chance for a Vault in those.
3. Stop reliance on Hounds and Vortices to track and chase the player. Instead have one orc wake up the rest of his buddies when he is alerted to the presence of the player. Trolls, too. This will make levels more interesting. Cs can stay, but Zs and vs have to go.
4. Bring back shards of pottery, bone fragments. Have a portion of the bone fragments assemble into skeletons if the player trips on a trap to spring them forth.
5. Maybe increase likelihood of something being found in all the rubble in town. I like a clean town and would appreciate something for the effort.
6. Level 0, Town, could have an entrance/exit off to the NSWE into forested areas. That's where you find the further away from town one gets, the more dangerous the mobs become. That's where wolves belong (not in a dungeon). You either go '>' Deeper into the Woods (or Mountains), or '<' back towards town.
7. Increase the number of spells and abilities for all classes. For Mages (everyone's favorite to beat on), have 40 or 60 spells, written on separate spells. Have a variety of spell book casings from Ethereal ones that may hold 4-5 spells, to heft wooden binders which can hold 6-8 spells, but at a premium weight and potential damage by Fire. Some spells will be much harder to find than others. Find a scroll with a spell or prayer for your class? Throw it in a binder to reduce Slot usage like the Books do now. Make it so players can only ever learn ~80-85% of the total spells so that choices must be made along the way. Do I really want to learn "Ventriloquism" (to alert mobs to another section of the level) or do I want to wait for another / better spell?

There are so many ways we can expand the enjoyability of the game without always having to argue about how we can make mobs harder or mages weaker. Expand the horizons, people.

[archolewa]

I think for experienced players, it all boils down to this with any character at the end-game. Including the ending.

That's probably true. Maybe I just enjoy a Blackguard's/Warrior's/Paladin's/Rogue's clerical work (in that order) and don't enjoy a Mage's.

[AceRimmer]

I just want to affirm everything NCountr has written in this thread. Absolutely spot on and better than I could ever write it...

So that i am not too unspecific, let me particularly support the idea of binders that you fill with selected spells and force you to choose which spells you will learn, because you cannot learn them all.

That, and bring back the wands of wall building.