Sil : Suggestions

[Patashu]

Nope. That would play a lot like Exchange Places, maybe too similarly.

It would be strictly weaker than Exchange Places (requiring a running start, a correct shape of the area, room on the other side, etc). And if I can leap across such a large chasm, why can't I leap past an orc?

[wobbly]

I might be more tempted if there was a chance to leap away on triggering false floor & pit traps.

[locus]

There's even precedent in Tolkien for jumping over enemies (albeit in the Hobbit, not any of the First Age stuff).

[wobbly]

I'm starting to think horns of terror are more viable then I thought. With a 5 grace feanor, 2 will & channelling it seems to reliably deal with everything up until the point I hit trolls. If I build 1 at the 1st forge as long as I stay above troll depth I'm managing to rush artifact & get +1 grace & will on an amulet by the 2nd forge.

[wobbly]

Taking a look at throwing axes in the simithing menu & their base cost of 2 seems to be just enough to put gondolin throwing axes (12 pts) just out of contention for a dwarf smith. Do they really need to be that expensive? If they dropped a pt I'd consider a 1/3/5/3 Naugrim with 6 in smithing, weapon-smithing & enchantment. Take finesese/throwing mastery, wield 1 & use the other 2 as throwing weapons. As is it seems just that touch too expensive.

[taptap]

If there ever is an artefact hammer for combat, please add stun to it now that it only exists in horns of thunder and troll fists.

[Infinitum]

In a ravine [Ungolianth] lived, and took shape as a spider of monstrous form, weaving her black webs in a cleft of the mountains. There she sucked up all light that she could find, and spun it forth again in dark nets of strangling gloom, until no light more could come to her abode; and she was famished.

Maybe this could be a replacement for Shadow Molds? Great webs of twilight, sucking the light from the dungeon from them. Would serve the same purpose of stationary darkness-maker, and would be more thematic to boot. Otherwise behave as normal spider webs (except not summoning ordinary bloated spiders, of course) Later on in the dungeon they could start summoning Darkness/Gorgoroth/Ancient spiders for kicks.

Also a change I've wished to see re: ordiary spider webs: being able to try and hack them up from adjoining squares should one spot them (if this is possible from a coding standpoint - maybe just replace the perception test of ordinary traps with a strength one?).

[Arseface]

Make Woven themes require a confirmation prompt on whether you'd like to assign the song to a secondary theme, similar to dual wielding.

Allow people to shift+letter to bypass the prompt and always do a secondary theme.

Put an option in to disable the prompt and only use lower/caps to use the themes.

[Infinitum]

Necro! Got some reading on in the book of lost tales to find Iron Serpent references, stumbled upon the aforementioned Rog in the fall of Gondolin:

[...]Now their leader was Rog, strongest of the Gnomes, scarce second in valour to that Galdor of the Tree. The sign of this people was the Stricken Anvil, and a hammer that smiteth sparks about it was set on their shields, and red gold and black iron was their delight. Very numerous was that battalion, nor had any amongst them a faint heart, and they won the greatest glory of all those fair houses in that struggle against doom;

[...]Then did Rog shout in a mighty voice, and all the people of the, Hammer of Wrath and the kindred of the Tree with Galdor the valiant leapt at the foe. There the blows of their great hammers and the dint of their clubs rang to the Encircling Mountains and the Orcs fell like leaves;

[...]Then said Rog in a great voice: "Who now shall fear the Balrogs for all their terror? See before us the accursed ones who for ages have tormented the children of the Noldoli, and who now set a fire at our backs with their shooting. Come ye of the Hammer of Wrath and we will smite them for their evil." Thereupon he lifted his mace, and its handle was long; and he made a way before him by the wrath of his onset even unto the fallen gate: but all the people of the Stricken Anvil ran behind like a wedge, and sparks came from their eyes for the fury of their rage. A great deed was that sally, as the Noldoli sing yet, and many of the Orcs were borne backward into the fires below; but the men of Rog leapt even upon the coils of the serpents and came at those Balrogs and smote them grievously, for all they had whips of Same and claws of steel, and were in stature very great. They battered them into nought, or catching at their whips wielded these against them, that they tore them even as they had aforetime torn the Gnomes; and the number of Balrogs that perished was a marvel and dread to the hosts of Melko, for ere that day never had any of the Balrogs been slain by the hand of Elves or Men. Then Gothmog Lord of Balrogs gathered all his demons that were about the city and ordered them thus: a number made for the folk of the Hammer and gave before them, but the greater com- pany rushing upon the flank contrived to get to their backs, higher upon the coils of the drakes and nearer to the gates, so that Rog might not win back save with great slaughter among his folk.

But Rog seeing this essayed not to win back, as was hoped, but with all his folk fell on those whose part was to give before him; and they fled before him now of dire need rather than of craft. Down into the plain were they harried, and their shrieks rent the airs of Tumladin. Then that house of the Hammer fared about smiting and hewing the astonied bands of Melko till they were hemmed at the last by an overwhelming force of the Orcs and the Balrogs, and a fire-drake was loosed upon them. There did they perish about Rog hewing to the last till iron and flame overcame them, and it is yet sung that each man of the Hammer of Wrath took the lives of seven foemen to pay for his own.

Turns out he's pretty fucking metal. I second "The hammer of Wrath" becoming an artifact hammer; maybe something like:

The War Hammer of Wrath (-2, 4d3) 6.0 lb
It fills you with relentless rage. It enrages nearby creatures. It cannot be harmed by the elements. It does extra damage when wielded with both hands.
"The Hammer of Rog, strongest amongst the Noldor, who fell hewing to the last before the gates of Gondolin."

In fact, the entire chapter plays out like a three inches of blood cover. Good fun, I can recommend it.

[T-Mick]

I don't think the "Hammer of Wrath" is an actual hammer. It sounds like one of the houses of Gondolin.

[Infinitum]

I don't see how that is relevant.

EDIT: To clarify; I don't it's not all that far-fetched that the leader of the house of the Hammer of Wrath wields an actual "Hammer of Wrath" as a symbol of office. Heck, given the fact that Rog was immortal and by Tolkien's account pretty fukken angry he might well have imagined him naming the great house after it. Also, "The War Hammer of the House of the Hammer of Wrath" doesn't have quite the same ring to it .

[JEB Davis]

...Come ye of the Hammer of Wrath and we will smite them for their evil." Thereupon he lifted his mace, and its handle was long; ...

How can it not be relevant?
It's clearly a mace.

[taptap]

...Come ye of the Hammer of Wrath and we will smite them for their evil." Thereupon he lifted his mace, and its handle was long; ...

How can it not be relevant?
It's clearly a mace.

I know you from elsewhere Welcome to Angband/Sil forum.

[Nick]

...Come ye of the Hammer of Wrath and we will smite them for their evil." Thereupon he lifted his mace, and its handle was long; ...

How can it not be relevant?
It's clearly a mace.

From FAangband:

# The Lead-Filled Mace of Rog

N:170:of Rog
I:21:15:4
W:20:15:180:30000
P:0:4d4:10:15:0:0
B:STR[4] | CON[4] | BRAND_ELEC[17] | SLAY_ORC[20] | SLAY_DEMON[20] | 
B:RES_ELEC[50] | RES_LIGHT[35] | RES_FIRE[35] | RES_SHARD[40]  
F:LIGHT | FEARLESS | SHOW_MODS
D:The great long-handled mace of Rog the Fearless, Lord of the house of the 
D:Hammer of Wrath of Gondolin.  Wrought by the greatest craftsmen of the 
D:Noldor, it strikes sparks as it crushes the hordes of Angband.

[Infinitum]

Eh. Maybe JRR just didn't want all the hammers to go with the hammerers hammering away and went for synonyms for blunt weapons. Also, ain't no maces in Sil. Also: Hammer of Wrath still sounds totes coler than the mace of Rog or w/e, precedents be damned.

..Speaking of which, some curse ideas I've been nurturing for the wall that might be 1.4. Essentially, sticky curses are boring and don't actually present interesting choices to the player beyond making the id game more of a hassle. Treacherous Paths, the Haunted Realm and the curse of the final silmaril are pretty clutch however and the game do with more effects like those. Anyhow, some ideas I feel could work:

* Make every character have a hidden "curse counter" similar to the stun counter. Make certain enemies able to "curse" the character, thereby adding a random number to that counter which decays over time (similar to stunning).

* A "curse" is also a potential property of any item regardless of other enchantments present, eg Ring of Evasion +1 (cursed) or Longsword of Hador's House (cursed). Any cursed item equipped or present in a characters inventory adds a set, non-decaying number that characters curse counter. Cursed items don't need to be equipped to confer their maluses either (similar to current treacherous paths) in order to discourage swapping.

* Any character whose curse counter is currently above 0 will need to pass a will check every time they perform an action requiring a dice roll or be required to re-roll succesful rolls. The difficulty depends on how high the cursed counter currently is (no idea as to the exact formula). This is very similar to the curse of the third silmaril, but with an added will check (because strength of mind suppresses the curse itself; eg Frodo Baggins carrying the ring).

* Cursed items aren't initially advertised as such (unless the pc passes a perception test on pickup). Whenever a pc flunks a curse will test and failsan action as aresult, it also makes a perception test versus a set value. If passed, prompt the message "you suspect the [item] is cursed..." and the offending item gets a (cursed) tag. If the item in question carries a known curse and causes something *fun* to occur, "you realize your [item] carries a curse (of X)!"

* Where X, of course, is where different curses come into play =). Not all cursed items need to be special, just some for fun's sake. The item gets a (*cursed*) tag, with specifics provided by the "look" command, eg "[...] Unfortunatley, it carries a curse (of X)". *Cursed* items still add to the curse counter, in addition to various other effects.

* Some ideas for different curses:

- Heavily cursed: adds twice the normal amount to the curse counter.

- Curse of treacherous paths: small percentage chance each turn to spawn ood monster at stairs, the chance rises with the curse counter.

- Curse of the Haunted Realm: small percentage chance to spawn wraiths each turn (like treacherous paths). Player gets bonus perception to spot otherworldly creatures, but also a malus to stealth vs the same.

- Curse of morgoth's beckon: whenever the player attempts to ascend a staircase, he needs to pass a curse test (will test versus versus the curse counter difficulty) or descend instead.

- Curse of dereliction: Rings/Amulets only. Whenever an attack succesful because of a failed curse test causes the pc to fall into red health with adjacent enemies present he needs to pass a perception test vs the curse counter or the item disappears forever. Lose the perception test by a lot and the pc doesn't even get a prompt what happened. 'Sup Isildur =)

- Curse of Wrath: Enemies get aggression bonus as usual. In addition, if the pc tries to move to an empty square instead of attacking an adjacent enemy there's a chance the pc attacks that enemy instead. Herbs of Rage should do something simular speaking of which.

- Curse of the corrupted theme: Sporadic curse checks when the character sings, if failed his song gets corrupted - slaying bonus starts benefitting adjacent enemies instead, freedom and mastery entrances the singer, the trees drains light and so on and so forth. Throwback to Morgoths stunt during the creation of the world.

- Curse of the foreseen end: A random enemy spawned on dungeon level creation gets massive stat bonuses depending on the curse counter. The player gets a perception check as to whether they notice it's their nemesis when they spot them =)

* Obviously lore keeper and cursebreaker abilities would need some changes. Lore keeper could get a bonus to curse perception checks and automatically know the *cursed* properties of items once they're identified as cursed (without suffering the *fun* first). Cursebreaker could be repla

* In effect, the player would need to weigh the benefits of known cursed items vs the risk of carrying them. High will characters (that have invested in relevant abilites) would be able to wield several powerful cursed items without breaking a sweat whereas weak-willed ones would run a very real risk sporting even one or two, especially when fighting monsters that can temporarily curse them further.