Overall 3.5

[MattB]

Here's my two cents' worth:

Item i: mimics are NOT visible if those items are squelched.

The 125 gold pieces worth of copper {squelch} was really a monster!

One @ will be running along a seemingly clear hallway, full of "......." dots, and boom! suddenly you run over a Ring of See Invisible that was really a mimic!. I would suggest adding a condition in the code to see if an item type for the mimic is in the squelch list or not. If it is, choose another item to imitate. This happens with all mimic types, except chests.

I posted just like you a while back and Takkaria persuaded me I was wrong. As Nick said earlier, your character simply ceases to notice e.g. rings of damage, piles of copper etc., and thus it's even more of a surprise when one bites your ankles as you storm past!

Item ii: the item drop rates for utility rods, I think, needs to be tweaked a bit.

I disagree. If you could reliably get, as an example, rods of trap/treasure and doors for your warrior by dlvl15, then that little subgame is lost. Having a character struggle without one or more of your 'essential' rods for many levels is one of the things that makes each Morgoth-slaying effort different to the last.

Item iii: There are times when a GV, though, is generated in the middle of the level and splits the level into two completely separate sections.

I'm sorry, but I don't see that this is a problem. It makes the game more interesting as you try to find a way round. And if not, well, there are infintely more levels to generate.

Item iv: I think RandArts is even more enjoyable now that Charisma is no longer an attribute sucking option for the RandArts R.N.G. However, at the same time, the ↑ ↓ potions of brawn, intellect, contemplation, .. , have all but lost their worth.

I agree that the loss of CHR has made them less useful, but my warriors always use them. I collect them until I can drink one each of brawn, toughness and nimbleness at the same time. I like to think of it as a mini-augmentation cocktail and it works a treat.

Item v: *Enlightenment* potions ought to also ID everything on the level rather than augment Int/Wis.

They feel like a throwback to me. I say lose them altogether.

Item vi: plasma is annoying.

Item vii: following that sentiment - attacks players cannot control / defend against - time, gravity, inertia, mana storms, water, ice, et. al.

I think it's essential that some attacks cannot be defended against. Keeps you on your toes.

Item viii: Race, not Class, should be the primary determination for HPs and initial AC adjustments.

No real opinion here.

Item ix: Now that Charisma is a thing of the past, would be nice to re-enable the Auto-roller.

I must admit that it's been so long since I rolled for stats that I'd kind of forgotten that it was an option!

Item x: If / when / once a player kills Morgoth, the game kind of becomes anti-climatic quickly.

Personally I've never gone deeper than dlvl100, and I find it a bit...'icky' that you can. I think that there should ne no down stair on 100 and the game should end when you recall from 5000' with Morgoth dead. Maybe that's just me? Either way, it wouldn't be anticlimactic when M goes down.

Item xi: Along the lines of uniques grouping together, what if you had a group of semi-unique mobs.

Interesting, could work.

Item xii: Semantics. "You see no more xxxx." That message rubs me the wrong way everytime.

Agreed. And also agreed that all and every extraneous message should be expunged.

Item xiii: Others have clamored for a Bigger Home. Perhaps let the character potentially buy out a store and make that a 2nd or even 3rd home.

I too would like a bigger home, but please not infinite. I think it would break the game. Endgame kit would be very simple with 40 artifacts at home. The game would be made much, much easier and that's a bad thing, IMO. My idea was to have one page for consumables and another for equipment. But maybe OP's idea of buying out a store for a million gold as a second home is a better one. Like it. Especially as you would lose the (by then slight) utility of having the store that you choose to buy. I like it.

Just my opinions, as ever.

Edit: formatting

[Malak Darkhunter]

So this gives me an idea. There are people who regard level feelings as a misfeature, and people who like them. How about having occasional level feelings?

For example, you could have a random roll to decide whether to give a feeling or not, and if yes then it picks on some aspect of the generation and says something about it. Rather than an overall assessment as currently, I'm thinking things like "The bones and scratches on the floor tell of dragons" or "The air feels cold as the grave". Similarly there could be indications of types of object, or types of room.

The randomness deals with the "scum for good levels" issue, and the feelings would be more of a teaser than an assessment (which are currently pretty approximate).

This sounds pretty good to me, not enough detail to fill you in all the time, but to occasionally give you an idea about the level just enough to make the game interesting.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Here's my two cents' worth:




I too would like a bigger home, but please not infinite. I think it would break the game. Endgame kit would be very simple with 40 artifacts at home. The game would be made much, much easier and that's a bad thing, IMO. My idea was to have one page for consumables and another for equipment. But maybe OP's idea of buying out a store for a million gold as a second home is a better one. Like it. Especially as you would lose the (by then slight) utility of having the store that you choose to buy. I like it.

Just my opinions, as ever.

Edit: formatting

I really don't see the need for a bigger home, you really only keep a couple artifacs for each type to swap euqipment by endgame. Alot of the artifacts actualy become pretty useless once you find the more powerful artifacts, I never have a problem runnning out of room, because I only keep what I absolutely must have.
I would like to see a museum though, just so that you can go and look and admire the treasures you find, although once you submit an artifact you cannot retrieve it.It's a member of the historical society now.

[Spacebux]

Home remedy

I really don't see the need for a bigger home, you really only keep a couple artifacs for each type to swap euqipment by endgame. Alot of the artifacts actualy become pretty useless once you find the more powerful artifacts, I never have a problem runnning out of room, because I only keep what I absolutely must have.
I would like to see a museum though, just so that you can go and look and admire the treasures you find, although once you submit an artifact you cannot retrieve it.It's a member of the historical society now.

Yeah, its more for the sentimental value of being able to store more of those artifacts you once possessed.


. What if we did this? - artifacts sold to stores remain in store inventory, persistently.

If we can make certain that stores 4 & 6 always have 40 books available, would it be that much harder to code in a persistence routine to keep artifacts in store inventory once there? The slight drawback to the player would be, eventually store inventory would be smaller & smaller as they have fewer slots to stock supplies. The only true way to discard an artifact then would be to leave it out on the floor somewhere and leave the level. And, if a player ever wanted an artifact back, well, PAY UP, Buddy!!

[Derakon]

I don't mind "level feelings" that are the character pointing out features of the dungeon that would be (more or less) readily apparent through observation. What bugs me is when they can mystically sense that there's just generally a lot of treasure or monsters, and even worse is when they can differentiate between the two!

It's one thing to have a character who is specifically marked as having some kind of precognition or other magical sense, but most characters should not have any idea what's on the level except through observation, directly or indirectly (which includes detection spells).

[Malak Darkhunter]

I don't mind "level feelings" that are the character pointing out features of the dungeon that would be (more or less) readily apparent through observation. What bugs me is when they can mystically sense that there's just generally a lot of treasure or monsters, and even worse is when they can differentiate between the two!

It's one thing to have a character who is specifically marked as having some kind of precognition or other magical sense, but most characters should not have any idea what's on the level except through observation, directly or indirectly (which includes detection spells).

Hmm, this gives me an idea, maybe this could help the weaker races, give precognition ability to elves and to a lesser extent half-elves. I think it's fair to assume that Elves can sense danger and darkness, maybe this would make the less desirable classes more playable.

[AnonymousHero]

I really don't see the need for a bigger home, you really only keep a couple artifacs for each type to swap euqipment by endgame. Alot of the artifacts actualy become pretty useless once you find the more powerful artifacts, I never have a problem runnning out of room, because I only keep what I absolutely must have.

I always run out of room and I get extremely tired of the "spend 15 minutes in town just deciding what to throw out". In a few of my past randart(!) games I've wasted hours (cumulative) deciding on which randarts to keep since it can be very hard to cover all necessary resists. For me at least, it would improve the game a lot if you could just dump stuff at home.

[Spacebux]

I always run out of room and I get extremely tired of the "spend 15 minutes in town just deciding what to throw out". In a few of my past randart(!) games I've wasted hours (cumulative) deciding on which randarts to keep since it can be very hard to cover all necessary resists. For me at least, it would improve the game a lot if you could just dump stuff at home.

If my memory is correct, originally, waaaaay back, there wasn't even a home '8' in town long, long ago.

Anyway, you're going to run into 2 camps here.

One is the Olde Guarde that lays claim the lack of storage space is indeed part of the game, forcing players to make choices on what to toss, what to keep. That 'risk management' IS a viable aspect of the game. If I toss this, can I still do that.

The other side is more-or-less, the Lay-Z Playerz Guilde that will get up in front of a congressional hearing and fire back, "what difference, at this point, does it make?!?! Just let us store stuff if we want.. if you want to play the No Hold'Em game, go right ahead, but let us hold all the cards we want."

I'm kind of inbetween---I'm both Old and Lazy.

[MattB]

Does anyone disagree that a significantly larger home would make the game significantly easier?

[Malak Darkhunter]

I always run out of room and I get extremely tired of the "spend 15 minutes in town just deciding what to throw out". In a few of my past randart(!) games I've wasted hours (cumulative) deciding on which randarts to keep since it can be very hard to cover all necessary resists. For me at least, it would improve the game a lot if you could just dump stuff at home.

i don't play Randarts, so that could be the difference, when I play it's either standarts or no artifacts at all, but I can see the need to want to keep everything on a randart game, with standarts you pretty much know what your going to find eventually.

I could go with the option of buying back dropped artifacts that you dumped out of the home for a hefty price. I think Home inventory is like character inventory, you have limits on what you carry around and what you can store at home so you have to make important choices and it could turn deadly if its the wrong choices. So yeah call me part of the old guard I guess, but I like the current limitations as it is, but I think the ability to buy back old artifacts could give a reason for the actual need for money.

[Nick]

So if the current size was kept as the default, and there was a birth option that allowed you to set your own size, everyone would be happy. Except for the people who like telling other people how to play

[MattB]

So if the current size was kept as the default, and there was a birth option that allowed you to set your own size, everyone would be happy. Except for the people who like telling other people how to play

Ah, but I need saving from myself!
If I could dramatically enlarge the home, I probably would. And I don't want that because I think it would reduce game tension, make the game too easy and ultimately decrease my enjoyment of the game.

But maybe I'm just weird and deranged?

[Lionmaruu]

The game is really fun as of it is now, but I have two sugestions about what would work and maybe balance level feelings and home size:

To be toggled in birth options:

1-No shop (At all), but BIG home;

2-No scumming (once a level is generated that's it so your level will be exact the same doenst matter how many times you go up or down stairs, it never changes and monsters stop spawning there if you killed them all), BUT better or even detailed level feelings.


Playing both options on (no shop AND no scumming) would be very fun and really have the potential of making the game really challenging, good for the veterans.

Of course those should be birth options not enforced to the "normal" game, as I think level scumming is part of Angband, having it off would be refreshing for a change.

[AnonymousHero]

So if the current size was kept as the default, and there was a birth option that allowed you to set your own size, everyone would be happy. Except for the people who like telling other people how to play

Sure, make it a birth option. I suppose there could be a few options: "No home" (but isn't that effectively one of the ironman options?), "Standard" and "Huge" (say 8 pages or whatever).

It does make sense for people who want to restrict their own behavior in-game, but cannot resist the temptation. However, it might set a bad precendent regarding option-creep .

Oh, and I'm probably "old guard" too (though not vanilla, I started on ToME 2.x), I just see greater value in the recent trend to remove annoying game behavior that adds very little interest. If you're playing standarts the "home inventory" minigame is almost trivial and if you're playing randarts (unspoiled) you spend way to much agonizing over oft-unknowable choices.

[Nick]

Sure, make it a birth option. I suppose there could be a few options: "No home" (but isn't that effectively one of the ironman options?), "Standard" and "Huge" (say 8 pages or whatever).

It does make sense for people who want to restrict their own behavior in-game, but cannot resist the temptation. However, it might set a bad precendent regarding option-creep .

I'm actually looking at a whole new way of handling birth options - allowing altering numerical values, having an externally editable file, etc.