iVanilla - no selling, ranged trap det, spell balances etc.

[ewert]

Now how to test my birth_options with birth screen broken, mwahaha ... aww shucks. =P Hmm how to revert spesific commits from the version, hmm ...

[ewert]

Reverted back the branch, but extra home not working ...

Hmm ...

[ewert]

I'm thinking init1.c is called before birth options are read, so that the OPT(adult_big_home) results in FALSE?

[Magnate]

Yeah, that was where I was getting. Alternatively, possibly with Magnate's changes, priests will have a very rough go in the beginning until they can start killing things with OoD. I'm not sure if they are guaranteed 1 blow per round with heavy weapons as currently.

All characters get a minimum of one blow per round. In fact, at the bottom end of the scale things are slightly easier than they were before, so you should be able to get a priest starting with 1.2 blows or similar, depending on what you invest in STR and DEX.

[Magnate]

I'm thinking init1.c is called before birth options are read, so that the OPT(adult_big_home) results in FALSE?

It is - init1.c is before the game has actually finished starting, if you see what I mean. By the time you get to the welcome screen, init?.c have all finished.

[ewert]

It is - init1.c is before the game has actually finished starting, if you see what I mean. By the time you get to the welcome screen, init?.c have all finished.

Yep thought that might be the problem. Too bad, as that would have been the easiest way to have extra home space ... Wonder where to change the store pointer stock_size so it gets "fixed" before loading home items etc., so that nothing goes poooof. :P

[ewert]

Okay I think I managed to do unlimited home option with quite minimal intrusion. Store init and store loading now sets home to 254 stock size if option is set, just two places so pretty sure can't make it neater at the moment. =P

My initial test char for some reason it didn't work before saving/loading once, changed the syntax in store_init afterwards but didn't test again yes. Will have to test again ...

What would people think if I made detecting objects just give a general "object" marker on the map and item list? Would people still think clairvoyance is too good? Or just downright remove item detection from all but rogues normal spell?

Anyways, no_selling makes me want to hunt down hydrae ... lol.

[ewert]

Okay now with clairvoyance no longer giving item info, I feel the sudden urge to address level feelings properly. You know, to lessen the exploration of boring levels now that you can't instantly see if there are interesting items. And to know when to !enlight and scourge every corner ... I think having clairvoyance just map&light works wonder on exploration anyways, every room is like a little lottery ticket, is there an item there?

I'm thinking danger, unique and item:
Normal monsters do not give feelings
Pits increase danger feeling (pit spesific msg?)
If any unique is on level, gives a feeling
Artifacts give special feeling, maybe even depending on the power of the artifact?

Now what I'm not sure about:
Should the top 3 weapons give a feeling? I'm definitely hunting for those when deeeeep
As consumables are not so rare, I don't think most non-artifacts need to give any feelings

Overall I think I will also remove the time-out period. Consider it auto-scummer if you have connected stairs. I miss auto-scummer anyways...

[buzzkill]

Just an off of top of my head suggestion. Make level feeling specific but absolutely don't provide them immediately upon arrival (determine it randomly or base it upon CHA is you must). Give multiple level feelings. Maybe one for monsters overall, one for unique(s) alone, melee weapons, missile weapons, ammo, jewelry, armour(s), consumables, magic items, artifact(s). Just mention the outliers (either really good or really poor based on what could be reasonably expected at a particular depth) in each of these proposed categories. In this way players can actually explore levels if they find it contains a item they may need, and can bypass some of the levels that are useless to them. Isn't that the purpose of level feelings? This may very well be too much information, but if you have it there to begin with, you can always limit the amount available to the player later, or portion it out via spells.

I also like the use of generic markers for detected items, though I would use item type specific markers. Also in favor or making detection more costly and rare so it doesn't get used constantly to detect every item on every level. Not selling DT it would be a good place to start.

[fizzix]

Buzzkill's suggestion is good. Delayed level feelings are a much more desirable alternative to the 'wait for level feeling.'

After n_1 turns you get a monster feeling
After n_2 turns you get an item feeling
After n_3 turns you get a notice about artifacts. Where n_3 > n_2 > n_1

Each level feeling can be tailored pretty strongly with more dangerous feelings taking precedance

The ground is damp and rotting (jelly pit)
Broken equipment is strewn about (orc, troll pit)
Loud sounds echo through the halls (zoo)
The ceilings are unusually high in areas (giant pit)
A chill runs down your spine (graveyard)
Deep grumbling reverberates (dragon pit)
Grotesque imagery appear all around (demon pit)
You feel a powerful presence nearby (unique at or near current level)
You feel incredible danger (unique(s) above current level.)

Item feelings can give you information on whether there's a vault nearby. Alternatively, you can just base the feelings on the quantity of items generated with the dungeon.

Artifact feelings should just be 'you have a feeling something special is here'

[ewert]

Okay a three tiered version with first info being pit/vault that comes instantly upon entering level, then uniques after a while and finally artifact info some time later.

Reasoning: uniques and artifacts can't be "missed" (unless preserve off, but that is a very special case), so no need to tell them straight off. A level without a pit or vault is totally boring, so I'd rather not even bother with levels like those after some depth. Even a pit will call me to clear it though, so giving that info straight away will most likely lure me into exploring the level and clearing the pit, and then the unique/artifact info will prod me into exploring even more thoroughly the level if there are any.

[ewert]

Hmm, well rethinking while looking at the code and noticing I don't know right away how to code a delayed level feeling ... =P

I think giving pit spesifics with the feeling is too much. Graveyards and jelly pits will be skipped even without having to go see which pit it is.

Not sure if there is any harm in telling if there is a unique present right away. I mean, it is no "look here, free treasure" like clairvoyance was.

Artifacts ... Pits, vaults and uniques cover most of artifacts found I guess. Pit/vault/unique feeling would thus cover "fight for it and may find artifacts" mostly. Just an "artifact here somewhere", in the case of vaults, is just surplus info. If it is an artifact lying around in a normal room ... Do we want "free treasure here" signs? Probably not ...

I think I'll code a straight up non-delayed version first, with artifact feeling only for preserve_off.

[Nick]

Hmm, well rethinking while looking at the code and noticing I don't know right away how to code a delayed level feeling ... =P

NPP and FA have them, if you're up for some code theft.

[ewert]

Yeah thought NPP had it, couldn't bother (headache, ungh) to go find it.

Well now the feelings are done. No boring "wait on stairs 1000 game turns" delays for new feeling. no_feelings option is there if you don't want this autoscum-type feature, as is disconnected_stairs, so honestly it was just tedium that you didn't always get level feeling.

Next LoS trap detection I guess, then fracblows ... and then I might actually play the game a bit too! =P

[EpicMan]

Hengband also implemented delayed level feelings, though I suspect NPP or FAAngband's implementation will be easier to since they are both closer to your port.