v4 now available
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It would seem that most of the low level bugs have been squished, I didn't see any problems with my last run down the dungeon (save for my Warrior dying, of course. build was 79dfe36.
Also, IT did seem to be pretty stingy with the "Ego" types of items.
alas, superb treasures on a relatively safe level. Better start the next character.You should save my signature. It might be worth something someday.Comment
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In other news, I just ran my first stats on v4 (after fixing the last stats-affecting bug, #1565). Boy is it mean!! So I've made some adjustments, so that "good" drops can't get "bad" affixes, and a few others. I've just kicked off 50,000 runs overnight, so tomorrow I'll have a good idea of how far v4's item distribution differs from 3.3.0. In the meantime, those of you currently playing might like to upgrade to the newest version, because the one you're currently playing really is ridiculously stingy.Comment
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You mean you don't already ..?
Actually, I thought slays and brands gave a flat damage boost in O-combat? I always thought that was rather clever - made them really important on light weapons and less unbalancing on huge endgame weapons. Have you changed that then?"Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The BeatlesComment
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Hmmm - hope it hasn't gone too far the other way! Stats were at 17k runs at breakfast this morning - it's about 50% slower than 3.3.0, so it's not going to finish 50k until about midnight. So I get to spend today boning up on SQL ..."Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The BeatlesComment
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Code:* Most slays are x2, except Slay Animal (x1.7), and Slay Evil (x1.5). * Weapons of *slaying* now get a larger bonus. All brands are x1.7. * All slays and brands also add to the base damage. * * Examples: (assuming monster is an orc) * Dagger of Slay Orc: 1d4 * 2.0 + 10: Average: 15 damage. * Dagger of *Slay Orc*: 1d4 * 2.5 + 15: Average: just over 21 damage.
It is essentially still like this in FA, but the multiplier is given in the edit files:
Code:B:SLAY_DRAGON[20]
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.Comment
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Do we need to present slays to the player as multipliers? Can't we just abstract out the multiplier and say "+2d6 fire damage" or whatever?
(Also, for v4, is there any interest in allowing some limited stacking of slays and brands? How about the best applicable slay on a weapon stacking with the best applicable brand?)
A.Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/Comment
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Here is the original comment from O:
Code:* Most slays are x2, except Slay Animal (x1.7), and Slay Evil (x1.5). * Weapons of *slaying* now get a larger bonus. All brands are x1.7. * All slays and brands also add to the base damage. * * Examples: (assuming monster is an orc) * Dagger of Slay Orc: 1d4 * 2.0 + 10: Average: 15 damage. * Dagger of *Slay Orc*: 1d4 * 2.5 + 15: Average: just over 21 damage.
It is essentially still like this in FA, but the multiplier is given in the edit files:
Code:B:SLAY_DRAGON[20]
The advantage of using pvals is that we don't need to mess with the object structure again. But since all slays would use a pval over 10, we're into the realms of two different types of pval (because with the exception of very rare speed boosts, pvals are always under 10). Pval is definitely the right concept - pvals are the numbers which quantify variable properties of items, which this is - but the pval-handling code is going to get ugly on items with three or four different slays and a couple of stat boosts besides. But then again other changes are going to cause this too, like variable-range ESP, so maybe it's time to get to grips with it.
Just thinking aloud here really. If you don't use pvals, how do you *display* the value of a slay on an object? I've been surprised by how much people care about not having the name of the object obviously encapsulate every single property - but I can see that I would care about whether my Slay Dragon weapon was doing 1.8x or 2.4x ...."Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The BeatlesComment
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Just thinking aloud here really. If you don't use pvals, how do you *display* the value of a slay on an object? I've been surprised by how much people care about not having the name of the object obviously encapsulate every single property - but I can see that I would care about whether my Slay Dragon weapon was doing 1.8x or 2.4x ....
...But anyway, as for slays, I'm not sure the exact value does need to be shown outside of Inspect; the indication of the slay is enough to prompt you to look, and you need to do that to compare the damage of two weapons anyway - the odds that your Slay Dragon values of 1.8x and 2.4x are going to be on two weapons that otherwise have identical dice and bonuses are really pretty small.Comment
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I'm not sure it needs to encapsulate every single property so much as it needs to not encapsulate some properties with no indication there are others. I don't need to read everything from the name, but I need to be able to see that "A Small Shield of Resist Acid" is distinct from "A Small Shield of Resist Acid". (One of those just has Resist Acid. The other has two additional resists and a sustain. Guess which!) With the side issue that displaying only one of a set of equivalent affixes is weird behaviour: I might consider it reasonable that an item of Resist Cold has a hidden sustain as well, but I'd be surprised to find a hidden base four resist, because why should rCold merit a mention and another resist of identical importance not?...But anyway, as for slays, I'm not sure the exact value does need to be shown outside of Inspect; the indication of the slay is enough to prompt you to look, and you need to do that to compare the damage of two weapons anyway - the odds that your Slay Dragon values of 1.8x and 2.4x are going to be on two weapons that otherwise have identical dice and bonuses are really pretty small."Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The BeatlesComment
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One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.Comment
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If you're having trouble representing the names of items with many affixes, then perhaps the underlying problem is that those items are being generated with too many affixes?
I suggest that ego items should be generated with no more than 3 affixes, including no more than 2 prefixes and no more than 2 suffixes (allowing a "Cursed Elven Robe of Stealth" or "Mithril Cesti of Strength and Speed"). Most should have less. The randart generator could produce items with more, of course.
(That excludes affixes which only affect to-hit, to-dam and/or AC, which don't need to be included in the name of the object at all.)
A.Last edited by Antoine; October 27, 2011, 12:46.Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/Comment
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