v4 now available

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  • Magnate
    Angband Devteam member
    • May 2007
    • 5110

    v4 now available

    With many thanks to d_m for wrestling with the scripting, the new experimental "v4" build is now available for Windows. (It's also built for OSX, but as previously advised we have to fix the UTF-8 support in OSX so this isn't playable yet.) The url for both is http://buildbot.rephial.org/v4-build...er/builds.html. If anyone using Linux wants a pre-built version, please say so in this thread.

    Please do NOT attempt to use a V savefile with v4, as this will cause problems. Yes, I'm afraid this means starting over with monster memory - sorry. Now that v4 is up and running, we might finally get round to splitting the monster memory out of the savefile so that this doesn't happen again! (Actually, let me tone that down: by all means try to use one and see what happens, but please don't complain if it doesn't work. Please at least start a new character though!)


    There are two major changes so far in v4:

    - the generation of magical armour and weapons is completely different. You will still see all the familiar ego types, from Of Resist Acid right up to Holy Avengers and Robes of Permanence, but you will also see dozens of new affixes like Sharp, Runed, Of Observation, etc. Lots of these affixes designate material properties (Crystal, Diamond, Iron, Mithril etc.), so base objects no longer contain materials in their names.

    - @ now remembers the "runes" for various object properties (slow digestion, acid brand, cold resistance etc.), so once s/he has found one object with a rune, s/he can recognise it on any subsequent object. This should make ID-by-use much less hassle.


    The item generation changes mean that balance is likely to be very odd until we've had plenty of playtesting feedback. In particular, you will probably find that brands, slays and extra dice (or sides) are more common than in V, but that simple +hit/+dam is far less common.

    There are also some obvious issues that come with it being a work in progress. You will notice that although most affixes appear on the ego knowledge menu when you learn them, others don't (the ones in ego_themes.txt). There's also not yet any mechanism for looking up which runes you know. There are also three rare artifacts that will stick out like a sore thumb ;-)

    These issues (and many more!) will all be addressed as v4 progresses.

    Enjoy.
    "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles
  • Nomad
    Knight
    • Sep 2010
    • 958

    #2
    Hey, great to see this available! Found a bug already. The object names need to be updated in the graphics pref files to reflect the updated base types.

    I've attached the fixed "nmd-graf.prf" file for my tile set, but I'm a bit pressed for time to try tackling the same job for the other three tile sets, so for quick reference, soft armours, most hard armours, boots, helms and shields all need to be renamed, as do:

    iron shot -> sling shot
    fur cloak -> heavy cloak
    iron crown -> crown
    leather gloves -> gloves
    mithril gauntlets -> bracers

    Unique tiles for special artefacts are broken beyond my ability to fix (they just come up with a "No object: tval:sval" error) so I just commented them all out apart from the Morgoth artefacts to get rid of the error messages.

    Looking forward to playtesting this some more when I'm not on my way out the door! Already seen all kinds of interesting new item types just looking at the shops. (But what does the affix "of Sorcery" do? Ego knowledge says nothing, and most items with it don't seem to have any visible bonus. Looking at ego_item.txt, it seems to be an AC bonus of M8, so I guess I'm seeing items "of Sorcery" with a +0 to AC? It seems to me that affixes should either have a minimum guaranteed bonus or be removed/hidden if they come up 0, to reduce confusion.)
    Attached Files

    Comment

    • Magnate
      Angband Devteam member
      • May 2007
      • 5110

      #3
      Originally posted by Nomad
      Hey, great to see this available! Found a bug already. The object names need to be updated in the graphics pref files to reflect the updated base types.
      Excellent, thanks for reminding me, and for sorting out the graf-nmd file. One day we'll have a mechanism to use different tiles for certain affixes (e.g. mithril items), but for now I'll settle for just getting tiles working with the new base items.
      Unique tiles for special artefacts are broken beyond my ability to fix (they just come up with a "No object: tval:sval" error) so I just commented them all out apart from the Morgoth artefacts to get rid of the error messages.
      Yes, this is a result of some significant changes to the underlying artifact generation code (we've got rid of the special/normal distinction) - we don't have a tiles-friendly solution to this yet. I guess this ought to be a priority, if I can find someone who wants to work on the tiles code (it is very crufty).
      (But what does the affix "of Sorcery" do? Ego knowledge says nothing, and most items with it don't seem to have any visible bonus. Looking at ego_item.txt, it seems to be an AC bonus of M8, so I guess I'm seeing items "of Sorcery" with a +0 to AC? It seems to me that affixes should either have a minimum guaranteed bonus or be removed/hidden if they come up 0, to reduce confusion.)
      Sorcery isn't a great term (nor is of Enchantment, the hit/dam equivalent). We basically needed a magical suffix to allow for repeated hit/dam/ac boosts, because items can only have one each of make, material and quality prefixes. I think I'm actually going to repurpose Slaying for weapons, and Protection for armour, as these are better names. And we'll put in a minimum bonus of 1 so that we don't end up with the +0 problem.

      Many thanks for the first bug report!
      "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

      Comment

      • Nomad
        Knight
        • Sep 2010
        • 958

        #4
        Originally posted by Magnate
        Yes, this is a result of some significant changes to the underlying artifact generation code (we've got rid of the special/normal distinction) - we don't have a tiles-friendly solution to this yet. I guess this ought to be a priority, if I can find someone who wants to work on the tiles code (it is very crufty).
        Good news, actually, I've figured out how to fix the major issue from within the pref files, so here's an updated version of nmd-graf.prf that should sort it out. Instead of using the former artefact-specific svals, which are now broken, the art-lights can be specified as base types instead, using:

        K:light:Phial:
        K:light:Star:
        K:light:Arkenstone:

        (And the Palantir too if it's needed, but the forum doesn't like me typing the special character in that one.)

        Artefact jewellery just defaults to a flavoured ring/amulet, so there's no tile problem there, though the flavours are not very Tolkein compliant: a quick test in wizard mode gave me "the Driftwood Amulet of Carlammas", for example. (Seems like more feature than bug to me, especially for randart mode, but I guess you could always give some of them forced bases like the One Ring. That generated fine when I tested it, named "the Plain Gold Ring of Power 'the One Ring'" with the default 'yellow/gold ring' tile.)
        Attached Files

        Comment

        • Magnate
          Angband Devteam member
          • May 2007
          • 5110

          #5
          Originally posted by Nomad
          Good news, actually, I've figured out how to fix the major issue from within the pref files, so here's an updated version of nmd-graf.prf that should sort it out. Instead of using the former artefact-specific svals, which are now broken, the art-lights can be specified as base types instead, using:

          K:light:Phial:
          K:light:Star:
          K:light:Arkenstone:

          (And the Palantir too if it's needed, but the forum doesn't like me typing the special character in that one.)

          Artefact jewellery just defaults to a flavoured ring/amulet, so there's no tile problem there, though the flavours are not very Tolkein compliant: a quick test in wizard mode gave me "the Driftwood Amulet of Carlammas", for example. (Seems like more feature than bug to me, especially for randart mode, but I guess you could always give some of them forced bases like the One Ring. That generated fine when I tested it, named "the Plain Gold Ring of Power 'the One Ring'" with the default 'yellow/gold ring' tile.)
          That's because we hard-coded The One (great minds think alike). Thanks again - great news that this will work with the new object kind code. Also great that there are already generic tiles for flavoured rings and amulets!

          If anyone else wants to follow the example of Nomad's attached graf-nmd.prf file and make the same changes to the other three graf-tileset.prf files, that would be very helpful.
          "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

          Comment

          • Starhawk
            Adept
            • Sep 2010
            • 246

            #6
            When trying to refuel the Wooden Torch of Brightness I found in an early drop, I get the message "Your light cannot be refuelled."

            What gives? I hate radius-1 torchlight.

            Comment

            • Magnate
              Angband Devteam member
              • May 2007
              • 5110

              #7
              Originally posted by Starhawk
              When trying to refuel the Wooden Torch of Brightness I found in an early drop, I get the message "Your light cannot be refuelled."

              What gives? I hate radius-1 torchlight.
              Takkaria made quite a few changes to torches following this thread. One of the changes is that torches (of any sort) can't be refuelled any more. This isn't specific to v4 btw - these changes are also in the development versions of 3.4
              "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

              Comment

              • takkaria
                Veteran
                • Apr 2007
                • 1951

                #8
                Originally posted by Starhawk
                When trying to refuel the Wooden Torch of Brightness I found in an early drop, I get the message "Your light cannot be refuelled."

                What gives? I hate radius-1 torchlight.
                Torches are now radius one and unrefuellable. Find a lantern if you want more light!
                takkaria whispers something about options. -more-

                Comment

                • Nomad
                  Knight
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 958

                  #9
                  Having played my first test game and died a not-so-heroic death to a kobold archer at level 13, drops are so far looking pretty reasonable in the early dungeon. Found a few items with +1 and +2 boosts to dam or AC, and one bad weapon with negative to hit, but the only multi-affix drop I got was from Bullroarer, and even that wasn't too impressive with a big plus to hit, +1 to dam, and a slay. (I don't want to spoil the affix details too much, because they're fun to discover. My main problem at the moment is that I don't want to drop or squelch useless items because they're too interesting.)

                  I was also able to afford a Whip (0,+1) right at the beginning of the game, which I think is a great improvement over the current V jump from average weapons to ones with medium-sized bonuses to both hit and dam.

                  Found one mini-bug: I picked up a Lantern of Everburning that didn't auto-ID itself, even though it was obvious from the lack of any fuel counter. I didn't get the chance to try an ID scroll on it, but it did fully ID when I died. (Incidentally, is there, or should there be, pseudo-ID for light sources now? Presumably affixes allow for different kinds of ego lantern, not all of which might be apparent on pickup.)

                  Comment

                  • Magnate
                    Angband Devteam member
                    • May 2007
                    • 5110

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Nomad
                    Found one mini-bug: I picked up a Lantern of Everburning that didn't auto-ID itself, even though it was obvious from the lack of any fuel counter. I didn't get the chance to try an ID scroll on it, but it did fully ID when I died. (Incidentally, is there, or should there be, pseudo-ID for light sources now? Presumably affixes allow for different kinds of ego lantern, not all of which might be apparent on pickup.)
                    Excellent - many thanks for the feedback. Yes, IDing of light sources needs some more work now, both because of affixes and because of rune-based ID. I will generate an Everburning lantern and see if I can work out what's wrong.
                    "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

                    Comment

                    • Starhawk
                      Adept
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 246

                      #11
                      A Whip of Slay Animal (+0,+0) pseudo-id'd as "average" but then immediately was fully ID'd (including the slay) without my wielding it, when I hadn't seen that slay rune on any other items. I'm still a little confused by the changes you mentioned but it didn't sound like this is working quite how you intended.

                      Was something done to the blows/round of light melee weapons? When playing a rogue I normally ditch the starting short sword for a main gauche or dagger, but the damage for pretty much all weapons has been anemic to say the least. I'm having a *lot* more trouble killing anything at all in the beginning, still doing under 15 damage/round at CL12.

                      Comment

                      • Nomad
                        Knight
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 958

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Starhawk
                        Was something done to the blows/round of light melee weapons? When playing a rogue I normally ditch the starting short sword for a main gauche or dagger, but the damage for pretty much all weapons has been anemic to say the least. I'm having a *lot* more trouble killing anything at all in the beginning, still doing under 15 damage/round at CL12.
                        I just noticed this: it seems that Main Gauches have been changed from a 1d5 weapon to a type of 1d4 dagger with built-in AC, so they're no longer quite as powerful offensive weapons. Plus I've yet to find an ego weapon with more than +1 to dam, so even as a dwarf warrior I'm not doing more than 22 damage with the very best weapons I can find.

                        The difficulty level has certainly improved, for Angband values of "improved" meaning I can no longer keep a warrior alive past level 16. I'm going to have to get out of the diving habit and go back to slow level clearing like I used to do as a beginner until I figure out how to survive.

                        Comment

                        • Magnate
                          Angband Devteam member
                          • May 2007
                          • 5110

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Nomad
                          I just noticed this: it seems that Main Gauches have been changed from a 1d5 weapon to a type of 1d4 dagger with built-in AC, so they're no longer quite as powerful offensive weapons. Plus I've yet to find an ego weapon with more than +1 to dam, so even as a dwarf warrior I'm not doing more than 22 damage with the very best weapons I can find.

                          The difficulty level has certainly improved, for Angband values of "improved" meaning I can no longer keep a warrior alive past level 16. I'm going to have to get out of the diving habit and go back to slow level clearing like I used to do as a beginner until I figure out how to survive.
                          Yes, the lack of +dam early will certainly ramp up the difficulty. We've long wanted to see mains gauche give AC, so their damage had to go down a bit. There hasn't been any change to blows per round yet though.

                          I've just fixed the Everburning ID issue - it's taken me an hour! But it should work now.

                          The auto-ID of Slay Animal is definitely buggy, if you hadn't seen it before. I'll see if I can reproduce that.
                          "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

                          Comment

                          • Nomad
                            Knight
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 958

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Magnate
                            The auto-ID of Slay Animal is definitely buggy, if you hadn't seen it before. I'll see if I can reproduce that.
                            I also had a drop from a unique pseudo-ID on pickup as {splendid}, and when I inspected it, discovered I already knew it was Orcish, without having found any other Orcish items. (Unless the race-specific affixes are supposed to be apparent on pickup?)

                            Comment

                            • Therem Harth
                              Knight
                              • Jan 2008
                              • 926

                              #15
                              Wait a minute, where is v4 on GitHub? Is it the master (3.4.0-dev) branch?

                              Comment

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