[Announce] FrogComposband 7.1.liquorice released

[Sideways]

No need to *identify*, and everything should be displayed now (a few things weren't in early dev versions, but I think I caught those).

[budswell]

Sheep say they are ridable but do not appear to be.
(Actually, now that I type this it seems familiar, may have mentioned this on an earlier version).

And just discovered the monster battle in the casino. Good fun, but now I know why I don't gamble in real life, blew all my gold (~50K).
It appears there is no summoning in there (and pink horrors don't split into 2 blue on death), any other special rules?

[HugoVirtuoso]

I would think Unmakers would fall under the same Casino monster arena rules

[Sideways]

Sheep say they are ridable but do not appear to be.
(Actually, now that I type this it seems familiar, may have mentioned this on an earlier version).

And just discovered the monster battle in the casino. Good fun, but now I know why I don't gamble in real life, blew all my gold (~50K).
It appears there is no summoning in there (and pink horrors don't split into 2 blue on death), any other special rules?

Nothing unintuitive, except I think no regeneration? And if there's no winner after a while, it's called a draw and you get your money back.

[GrimaTheBold]

Some Questions

Some random questions. I play exclusively coffee-break mode if that makes a difference.

Does Lucky personality's benefit of more beneficial mutations apply to Chaos-Warrior mutations? If so, this is a good synergy right?

Another question, when playing a Chaos-Warrior, does choosing the Chaos personality do anything?

Does a Rogue's backstabbing type attack benefit from the type of weapon, i.e. being much more powerful with a dagger, like it does in DCSS?

Any advice on best magic using build to get past early game? I can take melee characters to mid-game (up to CLVL 30-40 usually), but can't get nearly that far with mages. I've tried Amargeddon High Mages, but I hate that they don't have utility spells. What would be the most overpowered build among spell casters for early and mid game?

[Sideways]

Does Lucky personality's benefit of more beneficial mutations apply to Chaos-Warrior mutations? If so, this is a good synergy right?

Yes and yes.

Another question, when playing a Chaos-Warrior, does choosing the Chaos personality do anything?

It gives the Chaotic stats but has no effect on what the patrons do or when.

Does a Rogue's backstabbing type attack benefit from the type of weapon, i.e. being much more powerful with a dagger, like it does in DCSS?

There are a lot of conflicting motives in this general area. Rogue backstabs per se are not better with daggers - actually, I think they are stronger with bigger dice and therefore worse with daggers - but rogues are also excellent dual-wielders, and dual-wielding works best with light weapons like daggers. Characters with the Sneaky personality also prefer light weapons. Ninjas (and Ninja-Lawyers) receive similar backstabs, are heavily incentivized to use light weapons (and to dual-wield), and have a chance to roll special criticals with dice-independent damage.

So on a generic rogue who is not dual-wielding, daggers and other light weapons tend to not be ideal; but the situation is very different on ninjas, Sneaky rogues and dual-wielding rogues, though actual daggers as opposed to rapiers, short swords or ninjatos are rarely the best even for them.

Finally, there is the rare artifact dagger 'Assassinator' which deals extreme damage when used against sleeping monsters.

Any advice on best magic using build to get past early game? I can take melee characters to mid-game (up to CLVL 30-40 usually), but can't get nearly that far with mages. I've tried Amargeddon High Mages, but I hate that they don't have utility spells. What would be the most overpowered build among spell casters for early and mid game?

Try a 2-realmer with an offense-oriented first realm and Sorcery as the second realm. The strongest race for the early part would likely be Beorning because you'd get decent HP and a lot of early melee support, and could transition to a full mage later; but if you want to avoid melee altogether, just pick a generic OP race.

[GrimaTheBold]

One more question: what does the message "you are disenchanted" mean? I'm used to Vanilla where your equipment is disenchanted, but what does it mean when you are disenchanted?

[Sideways]

One more question: what does the message "you are disenchanted" mean? I'm used to Vanilla where your equipment is disenchanted, but what does it mean when you are disenchanted?

It means "you are hit with disenchantment-flavored damage". Disenchantment can either debuff you, or damage your equipment like in Vanilla; if there's no additional message saying what the disenchantment actually did, then it did nothing (besides likely raw damage), which frequently happens if you make the save based on your rDisen or have no temporary buffs to remove.

[GrimaTheBold]

It means "you are hit with disenchantment-flavored damage". Disenchantment can either debuff you, or damage your equipment like in Vanilla; if there's no additional message saying what the disenchantment actually did, then it did nothing (besides likely raw damage), which frequently happens if you make the save based on your rDisen or have no temporary buffs to remove.

Ah, that explains it. My Mauler has an Amber[2] saving throw because of my Barbarian Talisman with anti-magic - so I must have kept making the savings throw and never got a message about equipment being disenchanted. I just figured out this morning that this is what an anti-magic shell does.

[Sideways]

Anti-magic is nice; but the disenchantment saves are elemental saves based on your rDisenchantment, saving throw doesn't help there. If you don't have rDisen, most likely you got lucky with it repeatedly trying to debuff (rather than damage equipment) when you didn't have any buffs to remove.

[wobbly]

The spell fail rates don't show on a possessor

[ShadowTechnology]

In the current contest, I reluctantly decided to rest at the Inn twice in a row (from day to day) waiting for a store to restock (and for staves and wands to charge). I was reluctant because I didn't know how it would affect turn count. I'm still not sure.
Q1: Is the turn count the same as manually resting?
Q2: How does one see the current turn count of your character in Frog? In vanilla it's at the top of the character sheet.

[Sideways]

In the current contest, I reluctantly decided to rest at the Inn twice in a row (from day to day) waiting for a store to restock (and for staves and wands to charge). I was reluctant because I didn't know how it would affect turn count. I'm still not sure.
Q1: Is the turn count the same as manually resting?
Q2: How does one see the current turn count of your character in Frog? In vanilla it's at the top of the character sheet.

1) If you rest at the inn, you always wake up at the next 6 o'clock (whether AM or PM). So if you go there at 5:59 or 17:59 you only rest for 1 minute, but if you go there at 6:01 you rest for almost 12 hours. (If you rest twice in a row, the second rest will take exactly 12 hours either way, severely damaging your turncount in a competition context. Shuffling the General Store can be a bitter pill to swallow, but might sometimes be necessary in the comp...)

Your staves and wands will fully recharge during the nap either way; so usually resting at the inn will consume more turns than resting manually, but it can save turns if you go there shortly before 6 o'clock.

2) Your character sheet displays the day and time of day within the game, which basically is the game turn. You cannot deduce the number of player turns from the game turn, but the "official" turncount is based on game turns anyway.

The only complication is that most characters start the game on day 1, 6:00; but a few undead races (including the competition Spectre) start on day 1, 0:00, to get more darkness. The turncounts shown on the ladder account for this, but if you want to compare raw game dates without otherwise knowing the turncount you need to keep that in mind.

[ShadowTechnology]

1) If you rest at the inn, you always wake up at the next 6 o'clock (whether AM or PM). So if you go there at 5:59 or 17:59 you only rest for 1 minute, but if you go there at 6:01 you rest for almost 12 hours. (If you rest twice in a row, the second rest will take exactly 12 hours either way, severely damaging your turncount in a competition context. Shuffling the General Store can be a bitter pill to swallow, but might sometimes be necessary in the comp...)

Your staves and wands will fully recharge during the nap either way; so usually resting at the inn will consume more turns than resting manually, but it can save turns if you go there shortly before 6 o'clock.

2) Your character sheet displays the day and time of day within the game, which basically is the game turn. You cannot deduce the number of player turns from the game turn, but the "official" turncount is based on game turns anyway.

The only complication is that most characters start the game on day 1, 6:00; but a few undead races (including the competition Spectre) start on day 1, 0:00, to get more darkness. The turncounts shown on the ladder account for this, but if you want to compare raw game dates without otherwise knowing the turncount you need to keep that in mind.

Thanks Sideways, very useful info in the context of a contest. I hated to rest at the Inn, but sometimes you really, really (really) need to get a *Remove Curse* scroll from the Temple or the Black Market.

Three quick followup questions:
1) If you are at normal +0 speed, does one turn = 1 minute of game time (or some other standard amount)?
2) Is this adjusted by speed in the expected way, e.g if some item has a timeout: 100, that means 100 turns/100 minutes at speed +0, approximately 200 turns/100 minutes at +10 speed, and approximately 50 turns/100 minutes at -10 speed?
3) Do stores always restock/refresh at certain time(s) of day, e.g. 6 AM and 6 PM?

[Sideways]

1) 100,000 gameturns = 1 day, so 1 minute equals (100,000/(24*60)) ~ 69 gameturns. At +0 speed, 1 player turn ~ 10 game turns ~ one-seventh of a minute. At +10 speed, you have 1 player turn ~ 5 game turns ~ 1/14 of a minute, etc.

2) Yes, most timeouts are decremented every 10 game turns, so they work roughly as you described. There are a handful of timeouts that work differently and are decremented once per player turn, like the No Spells timer.

3) Shops restock once for every 24 hours since their last restock. That means they don't necessarily all restock at the same time, since their previous restockings didn't necessarily all happen at the same time. The game actually only processes the restock when you walk back into the shop, if it's been many days since your last visit it will process multiple consecutive restockings (which does mean greater inventory change than one restock, since restocks not induced by shuffling or buyouts tend to keep some of the old items).

The Black Market is harder to sleepscum than the "basic" shops, it only restocks if you do some adventuring.