[Un] Unangband 0.6.2-gold released

[baddog73]

Thanks, I'll try that with the bags.

[Bandobras]

I'm assuming that the former would let you attack more, and the latter would improve your defense.

More or less (more in case of charging, you are also more versatile with 2 weapons, e.g. against monster resistant to blades or blunt or with 2 different coatings). Actually, in case of warriors it depends a lot on the chosen style. In case of other characters nice resists from weapons may be a good cause for wielding 2.

Would it be a good idea to automatically ID {average} arrows as (+0,+0) to make them easier to handle?

I think, yes. Anybody willing to implement is welcome.

Maybe line-wrap long room descriptions in the message window?

Agreed. Volunteers welcome.

Also, bugs FYI - all seem to be related to the new ID changes:

We promised 0.6.3-alpha will be broken and we keep our word. Myself, I don't risk my nice character with alpha and play gold so far, which is buggy enough, it appears.

[Bandobras]

- crahes from breathing bat seem to be gone

Good.

- green resp. missing stars in poison breath are replaced by slightly darker magenta stars - is that intended ?

Yes.

.. oh-oh... :

Indeed.

It didn't crash from breathing per se .. unless I copied over the ini file from the official gold version and run with a bunch of subwindows !

So, we have a bug that's triggered by mutliple terms and possibly only when spawned by Windows through an ini file. I'm not sure if I can reproduce this in Wine and, anyway, I have no experience in debugging under Wine. Somebody with a debugger and Windows would be needed. Does the savefile and ini file you posted earlier trigger the bug, too?

Log attached .. though some "symbols" are still missing ...

Yes and these are unfortunately the Unangband symbols. Either I failed producing a debug binary or the program you use does not know where to look for function names.

[bonzo]

No bug reports or bug fix validations to report...New [Un] player here just wanting to chime in and say thanks a ton for all of the obvious hard work being done on this variant. Upon seeing the Gold release, I finally downloaded a copy and am really liking it so far. Haven't gotten far at all, but love the various areas and suggested levels provided on the map for each. Seems a very deep variant.

Just wondering why Wood Elves can not pick Archer for their class, especially since the manual states:

"They are excellent archers, but poor fighters, and a beginning Wood-Elf should concentrate on using a sling, bow or crossbow to attack their opponents at range."

Just seems a bit odd...

Overall, great effort here to keep this variant going. Now I know why the [Un] threads here are so popular...Active development, great game play with tons of unique ideas being implemented, and an active player base helping out with just about everything.

Keep up the good work.

[andrewdoull]

Yes and these are unfortunately the Unangband symbols. Either I failed producing a debug binary or the program you use does not know where to look for function names.

I will - for some reason gdb doesn't seem to install from mingw32 / work with Vista. I've got a XP VM that I could use.

Will have a bash at this later on in the week/weekend.

Andrew

[Arralen]

Originally Posted by Bandobras
Yes and these are unfortunately the Unangband symbols. Either I failed producing a debug binary or the program you use does not know where to look for function names.

Andrew Doull
I will - for some reason gdb doesn't seem to install from mingw32 / work with Vista. I've got a XP VM that I could use.
Will have a bash at this later on in the week/weekend.
Andrew

A) Yes, Dr.Watson is build-in into windoze and is not a real debugger.

B) Unfortunately, even WinDbg wasn't able to find the symbols/functions in unangband.exe (I think I installed and set up everything correctly, but hey, I don't really have clue .. )

Loading Dump File [C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\All Users\Dokumente\DrWatson\user.dmp]
User Dump File: Only application data is available

Symbol search path is: SRV*G:\DOWNLOADS\OS\Win2k\Debugging\websymbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
Executable search path is: H:\_Kommandozeile_\unangband-062-unofficial-gold2-windows\unangband.exe
Windows 2000 Version 2195 UP Free x86 compatible
Product: WinNt
Debug session time: Mon Apr 28 07:25:26.234 2008 (GMT+2)
System Uptime: 0 days 0:28:26.046
Process Uptime: not available
...................
(554.4e8): Access violation - code c0000005 (!!! second chance !!!)
eax=ffffffff ebx=00000091 ecx=00000000 edx=014cff48 esi=0022fe84 edi=0022fe7c
eip=00506c27 esp=0022ea08 ebp=0022eaa0 iopl=0         nv up ei pl nz na pe cy
cs=001b  ss=0023  ds=0023  es=0023  fs=0038  gs=0000             efl=00000207
*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for unangband.exe
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for unangband.exe
unangband+0x106c27:
00506c27 8a0402          mov     al,byte ptr [edx+eax]      ds:0023:014cff47=??

If this is really missing debug information in unAngband.exe, it looks like we'll be fine as soon as I get the new debug-exe .. won't we ?

PS:
Looks like I would need some ".PDB" and ".DBG" - files

http://www.codeproject.com/debug/postmortemdebug_standalone1.asp

http://support.microsoft.com/?id=291585

[lenochware]

What about the current monster description prose pieces? Would it help if they were longer? Or perhaps make the probing spell much cheaper and put it on some low-level magical device?

Well..I am checking mainly monster common dungeon level, points for killing and monster attack types. It will be good for me show points for killing also for unknown (not killed yet) monsters. I think that it is good basic information about how monster is dangerous. With prose text containing some hints about monster, it would be fine.

But I don't think that it should be longer. In fact it is sometimes a little confucing for me, because there are too many texts (also in items/features description).. There are a lot of not very important informations (at least I think so) like "You will remember this on your map. You will stop running next to this. You can do x with this for nothing".

It's fine have lot of infos and I love idea learning about monster attack types by fighting with monsters, and I like very much good prose and background about monsters but I have just problem find important informations quickly in long description.

But maybe it is just my problem because I am not native english speaker.

Anyway, I would like put important things up, or maybe show important info first with some --more-- prompt, or some mildy color highlighting (red number in common dungeon level, if monster is out of depth?) or put each info about monster attack type on separate line -- but it is not very important, just little idea.

Regarding bug: I will download new unangband version and try test it.

[lenochware]

Btw. I disabled room names and descriptions after a while because there was too many texts pop ups meanwhile playing, but generally I like idea have additional infos, names of rooms, rivers etc. etc.!

So what about possibility don't show this text like normal ingame messages, but after presing "s"earch few times show room decription, or maybe repeat level feeling too?

[baddog73]

@Bandobras: About volunteering, I understand how you feel. I currently don't have time for another project (and one I know so little about, aside from gameplay.) I will keep it in mind for the future when I get moved and settled in that I may try to dive into this, but right now all I can do is make suggestions.

Is there a better way of making suggestions or reporting bugs than posting here?


EDIT: Also, in the Lotr quest, where are you supposed to go next after defeating Smaug? I tried to go back to Hobbiton, retracing Bilbo's path, but that didn't work. Are you supposed to tackle Dol Guldur or maybe Saruman next?

[Bandobras]

I will keep it in mind for the future when I get moved and settled in that I may try to dive into this, but right now all I can do is make suggestions.

No pressure, really. I"m not sure about UnAndrew, who is the real maintainer, but I'm only a humble sidekick and I feel totally relaxed about Un. Even when I loudly groan on the forum at some newly discovered crash due to my code mangling, I'm still having fun. Really. It's enough to imagine the same happening in real life with commercial code and a pointy-haired boss on the same continent, and I feel the luckiest guy under the sun instantly.

By asking for volunteers I was just signalling that a) that's an idea I like, b) I probably won't have time for this in the nearest year or a decade, c) it seems doable by an inspired vice-sidekick, d) if you really care about this issue, press on, if not, I'm too relaxed to care.

Is there a better way of making suggestions or reporting bugs than posting here?

For obvious and not easy to fix bugs, the better place is Berlios. For anything else, forum is perfect.

EDIT: Also, in the Lotr quest, where are you supposed to go next after defeating Smaug? I tried to go back to Hobbiton, retracing Bilbo's path, but that didn't work. Are you supposed to tackle Dol Guldur or maybe Saruman next?

You are supposed to find a way south and it's not easy. There are many ways, but you only need to discover one and break through... Hint: maps may help with some of them as well as with getting back.

[Bandobras]

New [Un] player here just wanting to chime in and say thanks a ton for all of the obvious hard work being done on this variant.

You are welcome. And please tell us about your adventures as you go along.

Just wondering why Wood Elves can not pick Archer for their class

Can't they or is it only a greyed out option? If so, this a known problem with suggested classes (I thought it was fixed in gold, BTW).

It will be good for me show points for killing also for unknown (not killed yet) monsters. I think that it is good basic information about how monster is dangerous.

I remember now TOME shows monster level for all monsters, already when targeting a monster. I'm not sure if it's not too technical and if it does not spoil the surprise. But I agree marking with color, if the monster is OOD would be nicely scary and informative, without spoiling the player. Already when targetting. OTOH in gold many monsters are OOD (sometimes most on the level), so this would not be rare enough. Perhaps only mark those that are, say 3 levels OOD?

In fact it is sometimes a little confucing for me, because there are too many texts (also in items/features description).. There are a lot of not very important informations (at least I think so) like "You will remember this on your map. You will stop running next to this. You can do x with this for nothing".

I agree. It should be pruned and compacted. Perhaps another key to show the whole, unabridged info on a separate page, with nice formattin, as you propose.

So what about possibility don't show this text like normal ingame messages, but after presing "s"earch few times show room decription, or maybe repeat level feeling too?

Level feeling is repeated with ^F. It'd be great to repeat the room feeling as well.

[bonzo]

Can't they or is it only a greyed out option? If so, this a known problem with suggested classes (I thought it was fixed in gold, BTW).

Ahhh, I see now. It was not available during one of my first games when I chose "Have played Angband before", but it is greyed out, but still selectable, when I choose "Have played Unangband before". Thanks.

[lenochware]

<i>Perhaps only mark those that are, say 3 levels OOD?</i>

Yes, it sounds perfect! btw. Nice colors in last version, I like it. btw. I like possibility get info about monster by checking of his corpse - great idea.

Yes, I know that there is shortcut for repeating of level feeling. I just thought that it would be logical add it to searching..maybe.

Regarding cleaning up texts and other things: I was also a little confused by same symbols for dangerous/harmless things or monsters/items (I am playing text version). For example now I am in level with many ogres "O" and fountains "O". It's not problem, when I know about it, but it would be better, in my opinion, keep letters only for monsters, if it is possible..

[andrewdoull]

Regarding cleaning up texts and other things: I was also a little confused by same symbols for dangerous/harmless things or monsters/items (I am playing text version). For example now I am in level with many ogres "O" and fountains "O". It's not problem, when I know about it, but it would be better, in my opinion, keep letters only for monsters, if it is possible..

Fountains are 0 rather than O (zero rather than letter O). Maybe consider a font which distinguishes the two of these more readily.

Andrew

[Arralen]

Any chance to get a "real" debug version which works with M$ Windwbugger soon ?

I would really like to continue playing .. but crashing every 3rd green bat isn't really fun ..