[Un] Unangband 0.6.2-gold released

[andrewdoull]

It's the same trick as when you want to hit an invisible monster with melee in V, but not to advance in that direction in case you misjudged the location of the monster (in that case it says about swinging around in at the empty air or some such). I even think that invisible monsters are hidden in air and in walls in exactly the same way that the ranger in the pit or Stone Trolls in stony floor. If I'm right, you run over any sleeping invisible monsters and perhaps even over non-sleeping ones if you don't see them or if they lurk instead of emerging from hiding (if there is such a distinction in any other case than when sleeping).

The intention is that hidden are not just invisible, but you cannot actually get to them - there's something in the way (e.g. water).

So being able to hit these with + is a bug.

But then, walking over a sleeping hidden monster in this way should hackily wake it to prevent the kind of situation seen above.

Monsters hiding in shallow pits is not quite right yet. I'll tune this as a to do item. Basically, the intention is shallow pits should act like a trench in real life. e.g. hides monsters effectively, unless you are directly adjacent.

Andrew

[baddog73]

Also, it would be nice if you could hit monsters that are hiding, but that you can detect, via telepathy or something.

[Bandobras]

Also, it would be nice if you could hit monsters that are hiding, but that you can detect, via telepathy or something.

At least, it would be nice to make it consistent with monsters that are invisible --- perhaps let them be "hiding" in any terrain, even air. But, anyway, if only visible monsters can be hit, suddenly playing low-level human warriors becomes very difficult, compared to V. Invisibilty is already a big problem for the player, no need to make it worse by not allowing to hit by beating blindly around.

Perhaps make it so that monsters that hide, whether visible or not, are as hard to hit as evasive monsters? So, they can be hit normally with breaking potions or ball spells, but hardly with melee and any other distance attacks, unless stunned. Then trying to hit the monster would wake it up, as normally, even if no blow connects. I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but it's KISS: hiding = invisible + evasive, as long as the monsters is on the proper terrain, regardless of sleeping or player detection or telepathy. The rules for running over are also standard, which means evasiveness nor sleep nor visibility have no effect, only running vs. walking (or + direction, that is swinging blindly at the air) makes a difference. Of course if the monster is invisible the player is more likely to run over him instead of walking into him, unless he takes care.

Edit: after all I think no monsters should be allowed to hide in the air. That's too much KISS. So, ghosts will be able to hide in all non-empty terrain, e.g. walls, but clear centipedes should not be evasive ever...

[baddog73]

I wasn't clear, perhaps. I meant that if you can see a monster that is "hiding" then maybe the monster thinks it's hiding, but you can still see it, for example telepathy. In this case, I think all your attacks should succeed as if the monster were totally visible (or not, skill lacking ).

For example, if I have an amulet of telepathy, and a ghost is hiding in a wall next to me, I can see it but can't attack it by pressing the direction key. I should be able to do that.

Also if a monster hides in the floor in front of me, but I can still see it with telepathy, then same thing. As it is, you just displace it.

I think maybe you were talking about hidden monsters that you know are there, but can't actually see.

As an aside - why do mine dogs not explode at me? Are they supposed to do that?

[andrewdoull]

I wasn't clear, perhaps. I meant that if you can see a monster that is "hiding" then maybe the monster thinks it's hiding, but you can still see it, for example telepathy. In this case, I think all your attacks should succeed as if the monster were totally visible (or not, skill lacking ).

For example, if I have an amulet of telepathy, and a ghost is hiding in a wall next to me, I can see it but can't attack it by pressing the direction key. I should be able to do that.

Also if a monster hides in the floor in front of me, but I can still see it with telepathy, then same thing. As it is, you just displace it.

I think maybe you were talking about hidden monsters that you know are there, but can't actually see.

Monsters hiding in the floor or wall are beyond the edge of wall or floor and protected by it.

The same with a monster swimming in water. If it is hiding, it has dived deep in the water and the water protects it from your attacks.

You can't hit hidden monsters, but equally, they can't hit you.

As an aside - why do mine dogs not explode at me? Are they supposed to do that?

That's a bug.

[thorgot]

After killing the death knight at dunland, the staircase brought me to regular Isengard (as opposed to war-ready or emptied), and now I can't get to the siege of hornburg from emptied Isengard or Dunland.

[Bandobras]

After killing the death knight at dunland, the staircase brought me to regular Isengard (as opposed to war-ready or emptied)

Thanks for the report. Fixed.

and now I can't get to the siege of hornburg from emptied Isengard or Dunland.

I think this is unrelated. You can only get to Hornburg once, from Isengard war-ready. There is even some related warning and a confirmation... As soon as you, and Saruman's forces arrive in Horburg to fight the battle, Isengard is emptied (as the messages inform you) and stays that way regardless of the battle's outcome. No use trying to be shrewd with maps.

[thorgot]

I think this is unrelated. You can only get to Hornburg once, from Isengard war-ready. There is even some related warning and a confirmation... As soon as you, and Saruman's forces arrive in Horburg to fight the battle, Isengard is emptied and stays that way regardless of the battle's outcome.

Thanks. I must have missed the warning.

[Bandobras]

I don't remember Nar taking a single lightning beam II, or the trolls each dying to a single torch.

Ha, you were right. I always play my Druadan warrior so I didn't notice that a grave spells bug entered 0.6.2-gold just before release. I've just fixed the bug: it made most player spell damage several times larger than intended.

I suppose gold2 is around the corner, whether we can find anybody with Windows and bit of free time to debug Arralen's multiple term problems, or not...

[manchu]

shaman browsing problem

I'm not sure if this is a feature or bug. Playing a shaman. Specializing in magic books. Choose thaumaturgy as book. This character is unable to browse any book other than thaumaturgy school.

A previous shaman with magic book specialty was given a book choice (runic) and then was also given a school choice. That shaman was able to browse all magic, priestly, and bardic books, and most runes.

[Bandobras]

I'm not sure if this is a feature or bug. Playing a shaman. Specializing in magic books. Choose thaumaturgy as book. This character is unable to browse any book other than thaumaturgy school.

Really? The feature is, he cannot browse any of the 5 (4?) basic books of any other schools, but otherwise he can learn from all. If you want to browse basic books from other schools do not specialize in school, but in book, and then choose a school. I wonder if we could somehow graphically mark that the first few choices on the book menu are schools, not proper books. Take them in square brackets?

[manchu]

It would make sense to mark them in the first menu. This character is not able to browse any book other than thaumaturgy school books. His choice has also ruled out any other spells. I can understand ruling out other schools but the whole point of shaman is to have access to a far wider selection of spells.

[Bandobras]

It would make sense to mark them in the first menu.

I've greyed them out.

This character is not able to browse any book other than thaumaturgy school books.

Hmm, I've tested it with a magic book of Rune Magic and prayer book of Retribution and song book of Discordances and it works. Try it out in debug mode: ^ac.

I should be more clear: it won't work with books that you may sometimes (according to school choices) buy in normal shops in town (Black Market, etc. is excluded). The rest are OK and I suspect all spells from the ~30 excluded books are also available in the one of the others.

His choice has also ruled out any other spells.

No spells are forbidden, but they have to be read from permitted books.

[manchu]

I've since found that he was able to browse some of the song books. I can see ruling out the mage schools but he was also unable to use any of the prayer books I came across. I didn't do an exhaustive test. Only tried what he came across in his adventures. Those may very well have been just 'store books' since he only managed to get to about clvl 20.

[Bandobras]

Hi there!

I've put a Windows prerelease of gold2 on Berlios at

http://prdownload.berlios.de/unangband/062-prerelease-gold2.zip

The blurb:

This is an unofficial prerelease of Unangband 0.6.2-gold2. Please test it, while we try to find time to fix a pair of remaining bugs and release it officially. I apologize for a lack of changelog here. Lots of changes. The two most important kinds are fixes to some various crashes and to tripled (or more) damage from player magic. Please save often. Savefile compatible (took me a lot of effort).

P.S. A changelog of a kind is at the SVN page:

http://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/unangband/?op=log&rev=0&sc=0&isdir=1

P.P.S. Linux users, BSD users and other noble people: this is based on today's SVN under ungband/ungband/. Help yourselves.