Tweaked version of vanilla

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  • fizzix
    Prophet
    • Aug 2009
    • 3025

    Tweaked version of vanilla

    I've pushed a tweaked version to github at https://github.com/fizzix/angband/tree/fizzix_play. I have been playing around with it off and on and it doesn't seem to have major bugs. If there's interest, I can compile a windows .exe file for use. Most of the commits are atomic, so you should be able to locate and remove any specific ones you don't like with a little git knowhow.

    Compiled .exe file here http://plastic-idolatry.com/fizzix/tweak_upload.zip . You will need to replace the .exe file for angband with this one and the edit folders as well.

    Here's a list of tweaks. I added stars to ones that I think are suitable for V

    Code:
    *Complete rewrite of ego item allocation algorithm.  Now, ego selection will
     pay attention to the allocation levels.  I.e. no slow descent boots past a 
    certain level, and powerful egos are rarer at early levels since most of the 
    egos found there are weaker.
    
    *Flatten good and great chances for ego items.
    
    *Change elvenkind and BoS speed values to be level dependent.
    
    Make uniques more likely to generate artifacts.  To compensate, make great
     vault squares less likely to generate artifacts.
    
    *Bugfix for slay-evil tracking in wiz-stats.
    
    Smooth out the hp gains from constitution (needs work, I overshot I think).
    
    Make speed reroll the haste counter instead of adding a small amount to it.
    
    Increase stat-potion drop frequency back to 3.1 levels.
    
    Add new special rooms: laboratory (has potions), temple (has holy books), 
    and arcanum (has magic books).
    
    *Increase floor drops in caverns and labyrinths.
    
    make OoD monsters/items in vaults less OoD.
    
    Increase divisor for time and gravity, they cause less HP damage.
    
    Remove nexus stat swap (i just don't like it...)
    
    change spawn rate from 1/160 to 1/500 and new spawned monsters start asleep.
    
    *Add buzzkill's pac-man vault
    
    Allow option to descend two levels on down stairs, will not be given if next 
    level is a quest level.  (blatantly yoinked from hall of mist)
    Last edited by fizzix; March 31, 2013, 16:59.
  • LostTemplar
    Knight
    • Aug 2009
    • 670

    #2
    Nice one, I like allmost all of this.
    BTW gravity, time is nexus was dangerous, so a good nerf, on the other side IMHO monster's melee in general is too weak, if normal melee is buffed by a large factor, maybe AC will also be usefull.

    Comment

    • Mondkalb
      Knight
      • Apr 2007
      • 982

      #3
      I like it and would also like to have a windows.exe.
      My Angband winners so far

      My FAangband efforts so far

      Comment

      • PowerWyrm
        Prophet
        • Apr 2008
        • 2986

        #4
        Originally posted by fizzix
        Complete rewrite of ego item allocation algorithm. Now, ego selection will pay attention to the allocation levels. I.e. no slow descent boots past a certain level, and powerful egos are rarer at early levels since most of the egos found there are weaker.
        Definitely this should be implemented in V.

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Flatten good and great chances for ego items.
        ?

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Change elvenkind and BoS speed values to be level dependent.
        Aren't they already level dependent (from m_bonus part)?

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Make uniques more likely to generate artifacts. To compensate, make great vault squares less likely to generate artifacts.
        Another great suggestion for V.

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Smooth out the hp gains from constitution (needs work, I overshot I think).
        I always though that the fixed part was too important compared to the variable part (12.5 hps/level at max con vs 1d7-22/level). In the end, a hobbit mage should have more than half the hps of a half-troll warrior. But I bet this will be tricky to tweak.

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Make speed reroll the haste counter instead of adding a small amount to it.
        Huh? What's the point compared to leaving the timer go down to zero and then re-establish Haste?

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Increase stat-potion drop frequency back to 3.1 levels.
        I don't recall the frequency being changed recently. Are stat potions rarer? Too rare?

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Add new special rooms: laboratory (has potions), temple (has holy books), and arcanum (has magic books).
        Fun additions.

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Increase floor drops in caverns and labyrinths.
        Hell yeah! Caverns and labyrinths are currently yielding "junk/cobwebs" feelings almost 100% of the time.

        Originally posted by fizzix
        make OoD monsters/items in vaults less OoD.
        Dunno about this one, maybe make the OoD factor depending on depth instead. I always felt early GVs were stupidly difficult (how are you supposed to deal with level 50 monsters at dlvl10?) and deep GVs too easy (there is probably a bug somewhere here too, because you tend to find a lot of kobolds and such in GVs around dlvl 100). Something like a min and max level for monsters generated in vaults. Basically for an OoD factor of 40 (the "8" spots), this factor becomes pointless at dlvl 60. So above dlvl 60, simply generate a monster normally but with and OoD factor less than 40, and below dlvl 60, reroll until the generated monster has a level at least equal to a minimum depending on the OoD factor.

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Increase divisor for time and gravity, they cause less HP damage.
        Time and gravity are harmless alone. The problem comes from the size of the hound packs that breathe them...

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Remove nexus stat swap (i just don't like it...)
        Or simply adjust the swap so that only 1 point of stat can be scrambled at most. This would be annoying, but wouldn't ruin a character.

        Originally posted by fizzix
        change spawn rate from 1/160 to 1/500 and new spawned monsters start asleep.
        Okay I guess...

        Originally posted by fizzix
        Allow option to descend two levels on down stairs, will not be given if next level is a quest level. (blatantly yoinked from hall of mist)
        This sounds like shafts no?
        PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

        Comment

        • fizzix
          Prophet
          • Aug 2009
          • 3025

          #5
          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
          ?
          This comment was on flattening the curve.

          The rationale here is that Egos (and hence artifacts) are too rare early and too common late. By flattening the curve, you make early egos more common early and rarer late. However, this *needs* the additional changes to ego item allotment so that the egos you do get early aren't overpowered. It's no fun if you always get a Westernesse weapon by dlevel 10, but getting a slay orc weapon by dlevel 10 seems like it should occur a lot more often than it currently does. I ran some stats runs for comparison and I can dig them up if you're interested in the breakdowns.

          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
          Aren't they already level dependent (from m_bonus part)?
          This comment was on elvenkind boots

          It's possible that the changelist is old, and this is already in V. But from what I remember there was no M_Bonus part on this gear, it was just a random value. I changed it to be an M_Bonus.


          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
          I always though that the fixed part was too important compared to the variable part (12.5 hps/level at max con vs 1d7-22/level). In the end, a hobbit mage should have more than half the hps of a half-troll warrior. But I bet this will be tricky to tweak.
          regarding HP curve

          I kept the final values the same, so the final values are going to be the same. In this version, you will get a lot more HP in the midgame than currently in V. This makes the mages less of a glass cannon in the midgame, which is the main result of the change. Again, I'm not entirely satisfied with the outcome, and more tweaking is likely to be necessary.


          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
          Huh? What's the point compared to leaving the timer go down to zero and then re-establish Haste?
          regarding haste

          The current behavior is to add some small value to haste if it's currently active. This means that you can't get a full time of haste if you are already hasted. This was new behavior and I never liked it, so I reverted to the old behavior.

          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
          I don't recall the frequency being changed recently. Are stat potions rarer? Too rare?
          Takk changed stat-potions, I think in 3.2. Hunting for stat potions to me is the most boring part of the game, so I didn't like this change. This, along with many others, were just minor tweaks for my own benefit. Things that I like, but didn't want to have to defend against people to convince them that they're good ideas for V.


          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
          Dunno about this one, maybe make the OoD factor depending on depth instead. I always felt early GVs were stupidly difficult (how are you supposed to deal with level 50 monsters at dlvl10?) and deep GVs too easy (there is probably a bug somewhere here too, because you tend to find a lot of kobolds and such in GVs around dlvl 100). Something like a min and max level for monsters generated in vaults. Basically for an OoD factor of 40 (the "8" spots), this factor becomes pointless at dlvl 60. So above dlvl 60, simply generate a monster normally but with and OoD factor less than 40, and below dlvl 60, reroll until the generated monster has a level at least equal to a minimum depending on the OoD factor.
          Facepalm! I forgot some major changes that address these issues. I don't know why they aren't on the changelist I wrote up. I'll go edit it. Basically, I reduced pack sizes considerably, this means that vaults are more likely to have a variety of monsters (less likely to be filled by an orc unique and his weak escorts.) So slots are more dangerous overall. This can be tweaked also.

          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
          Time and gravity are harmless alone. The problem comes from the size of the hound packs that breathe them...
          I much more enjoy hounds as "annoyance" monsters rather than death packs. Again, this is a personal taste. I *hate* the way time and gravity hounds work currently.



          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
          Or simply adjust the swap so that only 1 point of stat can be scrambled at most. This would be annoying, but wouldn't ruin a character.
          A long time ago I did exactly this. But it didn't really make much difference. An extra chance to be teleported is actually more interesting, so that's what's there now.


          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
          This sounds like shafts no?
          regarding stairs going down twice

          well, every stair gives you the option to descend twice.

          Comment

          • fizzix
            Prophet
            • Aug 2009
            • 3025

            #6
            Some of the changelist apparently got cut off somehow. It missed some important changes. Also, I'll upload a .exe (and a copy of the edit files) when I get home tonight.

            Code:
            Reduction of pack sizes from 25 to 13
            
            Reduction of pits to half size (nests are variably sized).  Up to two pits are allowed per level
            
            Change of vault/special room frequencies (special rooms much more common, vaults somewhat more common early).
            
            Change of escort sizes (still needs work)

            Comment

            • fizzix
              Prophet
              • Aug 2009
              • 3025

              #7
              ok, for some reason I cut out the first several parts of the changelog. I'll add these missing parts at the end of this post. I was going to upload the .zip to github but it seems they discontinued uploads. I put it on my local university account, and you can download it here: https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/bader2/web/tweak_upload.zip

              It includes the edit folder and the .exe You need to replace both of these (I recommend downloading a fresh version of angband v3.4 first.)

              I should also point out that the mass ID change is a bit buggy as far as display is concerned because I didn't bother sanitizing the strings. So you get messages like "of Hammerhand is revealed" (You also might need to refresh screen to get squelched items to disappear after mass_ID. I can't remember if I fixed this issue.)

              Code:
              *replace birth_ai_smart with birth_forced_descend.  Birth forced descend is
               a new challenge option that prevents a player from using up stairs and 
              always descends to MAX_DEPTH + 1 from any down stairs (including town). 
               Recalling from quest levels is forbidden, but you are warned before entering
               them.
              
              *replace birth_ironman with birth_no_recall which prevents word of recall 
              from ever working.  Using both birth_forced_descend and birth_no_recall 
              recreates the previous ironman functionality.
              
              *Add debug command to really hurt monsters.
              
              Implement mass identify spell, and make identify rods mass ID.  mass identify
               fully ID's all items in view and notes if any artifacts were revealed.
              
              Implement bron's immunity changes allowing physical damage on physical 
              elemental attacks.
              
              Adjust bron's immunity changes so that some attacks (like touch) have no 
              physical component.
              
              *Change frequencies of vaults pits and special rooms. (special rooms start at
               5, GVs start at 35)
              
              Change standard pit size, make nests have variable sized (but always 
              smaller).
              
              Allow up to two pits/nests per level.
              
              Significantly reduce monster group size.  Make escorts more varied.

              Comment

              • Magnate
                Angband Devteam member
                • May 2007
                • 5110

                #8
                I think you just did a Ben/Andi and made yourself the new maintainer!!
                "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

                Comment

                • scud
                  Swordsman
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 323

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Magnate
                  I think you just did a Ben/Andi and made yourself the new maintainer!!
                  HTML Code:
                  > You put on the Alchemist's Gloves of Maintenance.
                  > Oops!
                  > They feel deathly cold!

                  Comment

                  • Nick
                    Vanilla maintainer
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 9633

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Magnate
                    I think you just did a Ben/Andi and made yourself the new maintainer!!
                    My thoughts precisely
                    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                    Comment

                    • Psi
                      Knight
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 870

                      #11
                      Originally posted by scud
                      HTML Code:
                      > You put on the Alchemist's Gloves of Maintenance.
                      > Oops!
                      > They feel deathly cold!
                      Love it

                      Comment

                      • Magnate
                        Angband Devteam member
                        • May 2007
                        • 5110

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Nick
                        My thoughts precisely
                        Oh good, the telepathy is working again
                        "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

                        Comment

                        • Derakon
                          Prophet
                          • Dec 2009
                          • 9022

                          #13
                          To be fair, he already volunteered to be the release manager for 3.4, so he was basically 75% of the way there.

                          Comment

                          • fizzix
                            Prophet
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 3025

                            #14
                            Well I did most of these changes months ago. My free time is going to be pretty much eaten, at least until January 2014.

                            That being said, the changes to vanilla have been light enough (barring some serious bugs that arose after some recent refactors that may need to be bisected out) that pushing out a v3.5 in the summer is a possibility (at the very least we have Nomad's special rooms as a significant addition).

                            What I have no interest in doing is arguing for the inclusion of certain things. That is a significant emotional drain and one that I really have no care for. But that's exactly what a maintainer really needs to do...

                            Comment

                            • Magnate
                              Angband Devteam member
                              • May 2007
                              • 5110

                              #15
                              Originally posted by fizzix
                              Well I did most of these changes months ago. My free time is going to be pretty much eaten, at least until January 2014.

                              That being said, the changes to vanilla have been light enough (barring some serious bugs that arose after some recent refactors that may need to be bisected out) that pushing out a v3.5 in the summer is a possibility (at the very least we have Nomad's special rooms as a significant addition).

                              What I have no interest in doing is arguing for the inclusion of certain things. That is a significant emotional drain and one that I really have no care for. But that's exactly what a maintainer really needs to do...
                              With respect I think you've forgotten/neglected a very important distinction between a maintainer and a devteam. As a devteam each of us had to argue for what we wanted to change - not just with each other, but replayed in front of an audience here. That was a big part of the problem with a devteam.

                              A maintainer doesn't have to do that. S/he has complete freedom to make any changes whatsoever. If enough people don't like them, someone else will rise up with a "better" fork and usurp him/her. Otherwise they will stand long after people have stopped whining about them.

                              I look forward to 3.5 ;-)
                              "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

                              Comment

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