[Announce] PosChengband 1.0.0

[chris]

Yet another trivial release (1.0.20) is available here:

This release adds 2 new specialities for the Devicemaster: Potions and Scrolls. Both of these subclasses can get 5 blows max instead of the normal 4 for this class since their aren't many offensive scrolls, and aren't any offensive potions (other than chucking death or detonations, but you don't want to risk carrying those in your inventory!). The standard devicemaster adjustments apply: enhanced power with potions/scrolls, the ability to use these objects much more quickly, the ability to preserve the objects so they are not always consumed, the ability to transfer "charges" from one object type to another and the ability to consume multiple items in a stack in an act of desperation for increased effectiveness.

The rules on transfer (which is hard to balance, obviously) are that you can only transfer from source objects of a greater or equal depth from the destination objects. Also, you can't choose worthless source objects (like the relatively deep scrolls of curse weapon/armor).

Anyway, I've playtested the potion speciality a bit and the scroll speciality not at all, so I'm sure these will need some adjustments down the road.

[UglySquirrell]

Just want to say, thank you for all your work Chris. You have managed to make one of the coolest games ever, The new race's are lot's of fun, really liked playing a Jelly

One thing i noticed, is you removed the Virtue system. Granted this is a really confusing system, and only certain virtues have an actual ingame benefit , however in my quest to finish the game as a Beastmaster. I find it adds a lot of flavor that would not be there otherwise.

For example, instead of just running through the dungeon killing everything i see. My Beastmaster tries to charm natural creature's, and if he cant do that let's his pet's kill them.

I find this creates an entirely different game, and makes me use spell's and skill's i would otherwise ignore (charm, summon spider's, dragon's, hound's, etc.)
it also add's a real roleplaying feeling, that would otherwise be absent.

Chance, is another one. Without this virtue, shuffle is essentially useless. As well as wand's of wonder. I also, would never have entered a casino without it.

I'm guessing that the effect's are pretty minimal, but it adds a bit of incentive to play the game in way's you would otherwise never do.

Would it be possible to implement virtues in a more transparent way, maybe let you see them on your 'C' sheet like the Weapon's panel. And maybe have the other virtue's give a real benefit. Nothing gamechanging, but i think it would add another level to an already awesome game.

Another possibility would be to add virtues to your birth option's.

Just my 2cent's, thank's again

[chris]

One thing i noticed, is you removed the Virtue system. Granted this is a really confusing system, and only certain virtues have an actual ingame benefit , however in my quest to finish the game as a Beastmaster. I find it adds a lot of flavor that would not be there otherwise.

For example, instead of just running through the dungeon killing everything i see. My Beastmaster tries to charm natural creature's, and if he cant do that let's his pet's kill them.

I find this creates an entirely different game, and makes me use spell's and skill's i would otherwise ignore (charm, summon spider's, dragon's, hound's, etc.)
it also add's a real roleplaying feeling, that would otherwise be absent.

Chance, is another one. Without this virtue, shuffle is essentially useless. As well as wand's of wonder. I also, would never have entered a casino without it.

I'm guessing that the effect's are pretty minimal, but it adds a bit of incentive to play the game in way's you would otherwise never do.

Would it be possible to implement virtues in a more transparent way, maybe let you see them on your 'C' sheet like the Weapon's panel. And maybe have the other virtue's give a real benefit. Nothing gamechanging, but i think it would add another level to an already awesome game.

Another possibility would be to add virtues to your birth option's.

Just my 2cent's, thank's again

Well, I guess I could bring back the virtue system and make it a birth option. I had a number of complaints about the system and nobody stepped in with a positive comment, so I removed all the code. Ah well, hg --backout to the rescue I'm just a little nervous that this worked correctly as it generates a ~3000 line diff.

I'm open to ideas for improving the system. One of my major complaints was that the virtue system virtually (sorry) requires source diving or spoiler access since you get absolutely no feedback when you are behaving good or bad. Also, some of the mechanics are so obscure as to baffle discovering them in any other way. My favorite example is selling an empty bottle in town giving +1 to your Nature virtue. I mean, I've played Hengband a lot, more than anybody else on this planet I dare say, and I never knew that

[AnonymousHero]

(snip)

I know this sounds (and probably is) rude, but please stop using the ' character. And take this to heart. That was intensely painful.

[AnonymousHero]

Well, I guess I could bring back the virtue system and make it a birth option. I had a number of complaints about the system and nobody stepped in with a positive comment, so I removed all the code. Ah well, hg --backout to the rescue I'm just a little nervous that this worked correctly as it generates a ~3000 line diff.

Just leave it dead. It never made any sense whatsoever.

If there are some secondary effects from its removal (like making certain spells unusable), then those things should obviously be fixed, but otherwise... Opaque mechanics are no fun.

[UglySquirrell]

Oh absolutely, the virtues are incredibly confusing. I only found them out ages ago, when i used to play Hengband. And i used the spoiler page for them then.

Having just had my character die horribly in the vault in Poschengband, i remembered about them again. He was lots of fun and really powerful, but when i rerolled i set the not killing natural creatures, unless i had to rule. Charming them if possible.

And i must say im having way more fun. A Griffon i charmed just saved me from death from a large pack of Paladin's, and charming a few animals to take care of jellies, and mold's works surprisingly well, i also have a sick meatbag macro setup, and it's really fun

I haven't really given much thoughts to improving it, but having some perks, like shopkeepers discounts, faster pseudo id (think this is already in there) evil/good/natural esp. + to hit opposite alignment - to hit same, levitation, etc. or mutation's if you max one of them. holy aura for good or fiery aura for bad. things like that. Maybe something along the lines of the special skills humans get.

Most of these things are just for convenience sake and not really game changing, but would some impact to your deed's.

Maybe the virtue spoiler could be included in the help files, or the Virtues themselves modified and the trigger's changed, to make more sense. Again i have no idea if this is even possible, im no mathamagician like Y'all

Just some ideas, thanx and Cheers!

[UglySquirrell]

thank you for the lesson anonymous, sometimes i forget why i dont post on forums. You have reminded me.

[Patashu]

I know this sounds (and probably is) rude, but please stop using the ' character. And take this to heart. That was intensely painful.

You are right, it is rude. If you can understand unambiguously someone's post and it's not for a job application, it doesn't matter what mistakes they made. Keep in mind that not everyone's first language is English, and even within English there's countless varieties of slang and tiny mutations, which is what makes it a living language.

@UglySquirrell: Please don't be dissuaded from this forum by one rude post. Remember the lessons of critic math

[Derakon]

You are right, it is rude. If you can understand unambiguously someone's post and it's not for a job application, it doesn't matter what mistakes they made.

While I do think that AnonymousHero's post could have been made a bit more gently, I also think think that absolutely you should be allowed to correct other peoples posts. Otherwise how are they supposed to improve their prose? "As long as I can be understood, I can write whatever crap I want" is a terrible rule, if for no other reason than that people who don't use proper grammar end up sounding stupid. You'll be a more persuasive poster if your post has good grammar.

Please don't take that to mean that I don't want people to post here if they can't manage good grammar. Rather, I want the people that post here to be making a genuine effort to use as good of grammar as they are capable of, and to be open to critiques and corrections (and likewise, if I make mistakes then I hope to be corrected on my own grammar). At the same time, I would hope that the people offering the corrections are polite about it.

[Nick]

Rather, I want the people that post here to be making a genuine effort to use as good of grammar as they are capable of, and to be open to critiques and corrections (and likewise, if I make mistakes then I hope to be corrected on my own grammar).

Yeah lol wahetevs dood

[chris]

thank you for the lesson anonymous, sometimes i forget why i dont post on forums. You have reminded me.

Please continue to post on this forum. I for one welcome any feedback and found your thoughts on the virtue system quite useful.

[AnonymousHero]

thank you for the lesson anonymous, sometimes i forget why i dont post on forums. You have reminded me.

Huh?

I wished to point out that your message may get lost because you're not following the convenional rules of grammar wrt. the apostrophe.

On no account should that stop you from posting more here -- I'm just saying that it might be in your best interest to put more effort in to use the apostrophe more correctly -- it'll prevent your readers from getting distracted by that so they can focus more on the content of your posts.

[debo]

What is this i don't even

[UglySquirrell]

Chris, i apologize for derailing your thread. I'll make my posts more legible in the future. The Critic Math post was really funny Patashu. I could actually hear Larry David speaking in the car

[chris]

I just uploaded 1.0.21 here:

This release fixes a serious bug with potions of polymorph causing the program to hang!

In addition, I brought back the virtue system.
*It is now optional with a birth option (enable_virtues).
*If you upgrade a savefile from before the version where I removed the virtue system, the game should keep your virtues intact and leave the virtue system enabled, but you might want to try to upgrade with a backup of your save file just in case.
* If you upgrade a savefile from a version that did not have virtues, then the virtue system should be turned off.
* If you start a new savefile, virtues will be on by default, but you can turn them off by pressing '='.
* The player now receives messages whenever they perform actions that affect one of their virtues. Messages are displayed as long as the disturb_minor option is turned on. Otherwise they are suppressed.
* All of the virtues now have minor gameplay effects. I can provide spoilers if desired, but none of the effects are very strong so all may be safely ignored if desired.

Finally, I did some minor work on improving the helpfiles, especially MonsterRaces.txt. This file now gives stat and skill breakdowns for each evolutionary step, but there are still a few problems with the file. For example, hounds evolve randomly so the races listed are random ones in each given tier. But it is still an improvement over the last release