Halls of Mist 1.3.0

**buzzkill** · October 26, 2012, 18:51

... more in game random thoughts

minor: If I have nothing to identify, then no warning about descending without using all my ID points. (ditto other profs).
I wouldn't mind the R)est option modified, that is "for a while" (50 turns or full whichever come first) as the default and only. Resting for shorter periods could be accomplished with the 5 key. Longer by pressing R more than once. Resting to full health not only takes 2 keystorkes, but also wastes turns, since full health is often unnecessary unless attacked on the very next turn. I've found that 50 turns works well for all XP levels, though in dire situations you may have to rest 2 or 3 times.
The whole Ironband mana thing seems very OK, not what I was expecting. But there has to be a better, more complicated solution .
Shield spell gives message "you feel your skin harden" (old stoneskin).
The torch of truth works very nicely, summons can be very nearly, but not quite entirely ignored.
Poisoning can get quite severe and there is no way to know how poisoned you are. A more nuanced poisoned indicator would be nice (Poison, Poisx2, Poisx4, Poisx8), like with the flavored cut/would descriptions.
I found an ego torch of Thievery (-4). Are cursed ego torches intended?

**Mikko Lehtinen** · October 28, 2012, 11:56

I need some help in determining how good different weapons are at parrying.

My possibly faulty rules of thumb:

Swords are good at parrying. Thin and light swords like rapier are worse at parrying than heavier swords; likewise, the heaviest two-handed swords aren't that good at parrying. Flexible swords that can be used either one- or two-handed are the best, since you can always adapt to the situation.
Quarterstaves are up there with the swords.

Here's my list so far. Many of the throwing weapons on the list double as light melee weapons. Opinions?

Doesn't help parrying:

dart
lead-weighted dart (Romans used these)
dread spike (made-up thrown weapon)

Helps parrying a little:

dagger
dirk
grain flail
flail
stiletto
nunchaku
hurlbat (an entirely metal throwing axe)
throwing axe
javelin
dire flail
seeker stiletto (made-up thrown weapon)
cat-o-nine-tails
maul
double-ball flail
great hammer

Average at parrying:

killer stick (African thrown club)
small sword
hand axe
club
mace
morning star
truncheon
warhammer
windhammer (made-up thrown weapon)
baculus (a mace with a different name)
pilum (Roman long javelin)

Above average at parrying:

rapier
thinblade
three-piece-staff
lucerne hammer (polearm with a spike/hammer atop a long pole)
claymore (Scottish two-handed sword)
two-handed sword
zweihänder (German two-handed sword)
executioner's sword (made-up superweapon from Moria)
espadon (yet another two-handed sword)

Good at parrying:

arming sword (= short sword)
gladius (Roman short sword)
scimitar
flamberge (in Mist, a slightly heavier rapier with a waved blade)
spatha (Roman longsword)
falchion

Excellent at parrying:

battlestaff
broadsword
longsword
quarterstaff

**buzzkill** · October 28, 2012, 16:00

Without any special knowledge of the subject... wouldn't parrying ability be predicated on the type on incoming attack.

**Mikko Lehtinen** · October 28, 2012, 17:13

Originally posted by buzzkill

Without any special knowledge of the subject... wouldn't parrying ability be predicated on the type on incoming attack.

Realistically, yes.

But in most cases, I think being able to put your weapon in the attack's way fast and accurately helps. The weapon also needs to have enough mass.

Swords are better because they are evenly balanced. A warhammer has most of it's weight on one end, which is good for damage but bad for parrying.

Two-handed weapons are a bit clumsy because then you can't use your gauntleted off-hand for defense when a need arises (you could for example have an opportunity to take a grip of the opponents weapon or arm). But against very heavy hitters, you need two hands to parry the attack with enough strength. On average, hand-and-a-half swords are probably best. (At least in an underground environment where you can't use shields.)

**Mikko Lehtinen** · October 28, 2012, 18:24

I think I want a somewhat realistic rule of thumb for parrying that is "good enough for movies". Then I'm deliberatively going to break that general rule with certain weapons to give different weapons a distinct personality.

For example, I want one two-handed sword that is for some mysterious reason very good at parrying.

Interesting equipment choices is the end goal, not realism.

**Holsety** · October 30, 2012, 10:35

Hey all.

Is there a reason for why Angels and Demons didn't survive the transition from FayAngband to Halls of Mist? Just curious.

**Mikko Lehtinen** · October 30, 2012, 18:46

Hi Holsety,

I couldn't fit information about their special abilities on the character sheet cleanly. It also seemed weird to have two different kinds of special abilities with different mechanics, proficiencies and Angel/Demon abilities. There was no flavour reasons for their removal -- in Mist, they would be inhabitants of Aether.

You didn't ask, but the Bard is gone because instruments were junk for everybody but Bards. I've spent lots of energy to make most items useful to everybody.

**jujuben** · November 5, 2012, 16:34

Rogue starting exploit

Roll up a Rogue. Buy some arrows. Sell them back one at a time. As much free money as you have patience for.

Perhaps there should be a nonzero minimum selling value for brand new rogues.

**buzzkill** · November 8, 2012, 12:32

Even more Mist ramblings...

I was able to topple a tree with a cudgel.
I found 3 altars on DL2. (min depth 1)
Next altar is on level 10. (min depth 5). No fountains yet... and now DL28, min depth 16 and still no fountains.
Once I survive the first few levels, I find that I usually have excess mana through the late tens and teens, maybe even into the twenties (but I feel I do a pretty good job of not wasting it).
Should "effect duration" spells carry over from one level to the next. I seem to recall it taking weeks to travel between levels. FYI, with my previous mid-level spellsword, I of into the habit of casting shield and infravision (with my excess mana) before descending.
How about an option to auto pick up items (arrows) matching those in inventory (with confirm pickup on).
If I hit a Mist-enemy with my weapon of reality and it suffers a status aliment, such as fear, it does not dissolve as it should. (actually I don't know if it anything to do with "fear:, but sometimes (rarely) monsters don't disappear, which is very bad if you're (rightfully) planning on something very dangerous not being there next turn.
I've never found wands of transference useful. I think they would be cool if the beam could penetrate walls to yank ghostly things from walls, or to in effect phase from one room to another (assuming you have a means of locating a valid target through solid granite).

**Mikko Lehtinen** · November 8, 2012, 12:45

Thanks!

Effects should probably end when you leave a level. And the player should heal to maximum.

I'll fix the Reality. (That sentence sounds rather grandiose.)

Wands of Transference have been quite useful to me, at least for non-spellcasters. You can aim them over the heads of enemies like fireballs.

I'll fix Rogue's selling bug too, thanks jujuben.

I should probably release a bugfix/balancing version before breaking everything apart again.

**Mikko Lehtinen** · November 8, 2012, 13:08

A little peak to what I am thinking currently: a new spellcasting system, inspired by my favorite roguelike Larn.

Press m for the spell menu, and the spell's starting letter to cast it. Yes, there will be only 26 spells in the game (plus 14 upgrades).

If there's a + after a spell, it can be learned twice -- then you can press f for a small fireball, F for a big fireball.

Code:

Arcane					Divine
------                                  ------

(f)ireball +				(o)rb of draining +
(l)ightning bolt +			(y)ank
(a)cid arrow +				(w)ord of holiness
(c)laws of winter +
					(j)inx +
(d)etect monsters			(s)oothe +
(i)lluminate
					(d)etect monsters
(q)uickness +				(i)lluminate
(u)nholy strength +
(v)anish from sight			(g)uardian spirit +
					(t)rue sight +
(r)echarge				(z)eal
(p)owder perfection
(x)enogenesis				(e)nchant weapon +
					(m)ystify item
(b)link +
					(h)eal +
(k)nock					(n)ature's cure

Everybody can learn both arcane and divine spells from spellbooks. You'll find about 10 spellbooks in a typical game (boss fight will be on DL 30). Even a Warrior has a little mana.

Read an Arcane Spellbook to learn a random arcane spell or an upgrade to a spell you already know. If you read the book in a Circle of Knowledge, you get to choose from two options.

Read an Divine Spellbook to learn a random divine spell or an upgrade. If you read the book on a friendly altar, you get to choose from two options.

True spellcasters start with some spells and get bonus spells (of their own realm only) when they gain levels. You can always choose a bonus spell from two options.

Mage starts with Acid Arrow, Blink and Claws of Winter. Templar starts with Zeal. Shaman starts with Heal and Enchant Weapon.

I think five classes should be plenty:

Warrior
Rogue
Templar
Shaman
Mage

**buzzkill** · November 8, 2012, 23:22

Here's a big bug.. a (mist) energy hound just breathed for over 200 point of (resisted) damage. A few turns later it happened again. In retrospect, I should have saved the game and made a backup. Note the -718 HP in the second screen shot. That was from about 117 HP with (at least) 35% r Elec. FYI, there appears to be no way to view your resistances from the tombstone screen.

Attached Files

**Squeak** · November 9, 2012, 01:34

I like the idea for the spells. I think currently there are too many spells and many of them are not useful. I also like the idea for fewer classes, although it might be interesting to have subclasses - perhaps not available from the start, but becoming available when you reach a certain level.

A few more issues with mist monsters - when they pick up objects the objects are not dropped when the mist monster is killed. Perhaps they should not be able to pick up objects.
It seems that breeding mist monsters become real monsters when they breed.

Also a question - when you have a mist unique, what happens after you kill them? Can you meet the real unique monster down the line or does it count as if you've killed that unique?

**Mikko Lehtinen** · November 9, 2012, 08:03

Originally posted by buzzkill

Here's a big bug.. a (mist) energy hound just breathed for over 200 point of (resisted) damage. A few turns later it happened again. In retrospect, I should have saved the game and made a backup. Note the -718 HP in the second screen shot. That was from about 117 HP with (at least) 35% r Elec. FYI, there appears to be no way to view your resistances from the tombstone screen.

This is very evil. I'll try to find out why it happened.

**Mikko Lehtinen** · November 9, 2012, 08:18