My latest dumb idea

[Nomad]

Ive been waiting forever for a remake of moria.

There's a Moria page here that has some pretty detailed spoilers. Seems like you could reconstruct at least the monsters, items and spell lists going off that. A lot of it could be done just by changing the edit files in current V.

[Malak Darkhunter]

There's a Moria page here that has some pretty detailed spoilers. Seems like you could reconstruct at least the monsters, items and spell lists going off that. A lot of it could be done just by changing the edit files in current V.

Ha,Ha, after many years of playing I only recently learned how to change edit files in the game, and still only know a little bit about it but it is certainly cause for expereiment I would probably use V 3.3.2 codebase as I like that one the most. After I get done with FA I might experiement some more and see what I can cook up, but don't let me discourage anyone from wanting to make a remake of moria, as I'm not a coder and that job could go to someone better qualified, but it should be fairly simple if a lot of work to redo the edit files a bit.

[ghengiz]

It could work----Concentratedband to merry foil to Quickband or some such.

perhaps I'm overshooting it, but what about coffee-break angband?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

perhaps I'm overshooting it, but what about coffee-break angband?

Try Quickband. It's not exactly coffee-break but near.

I actually feel my own variant, Fay, works well for coffee-breaks. That's when I often play it really. I tend to think of every dungeon level (they're small) as a separate challenge, and you're supposed to try clearing every level in Fay. Usually there's enough challenge to keep you interested in the level (or enough to kill you, ha!).

EDIT: I'd like to add that one of my design ideas for Fay was that it should be a perfect game for a player who only likes to clear two or three dungeon levels a day. I like to keep certain limits in my *band playing because I don't usually like the results after I spend a whole day playing.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

It may be that smaller scale ideas like LessBand or Moria2 have a better chance of turning into actually enjoyable games if they are created by a single individual with a vision.

I for one would (perhaps one day) be interested in doing MoriaMyWay or perhaps UnMoria, with some controversial changes that would never get through in group projects.

After the initial design phase having people actually play the game and commenting is crucial. Let's call it the development phase. Even then I feel having one individual in charge of rebalancing is beneficial.

[Nick]

Lessia is Moria

[Antoine]

Lessia is Moria

That was really horrible

A.

[d_m]

Imagine a variant with Less Stuff.

Sounds neat.

I also envisage the game being balanced for small screensize (say 30x25 or thereabouts) so you can play it with big juicy 32x32 tiles. This would mean smaller levels with smaller rooms.

Yeah, I think this is a great idea. If you reduce the maximum range for spells/effects/vision then it should be fine, and it is a lot more friendly for tiles (or just those of us with bad eyesight).

Finally I'd like to see the number of commands reduced to no more than 10.

YES! (While it has not born fruit yet) I have been on a quest to streamline and reduce the number of commands for awhile now.

Does anyone think this is a non-stupid idea?

YES! Definitely a good idea.

Would anyone be interested in working on it

In theory, sure. In practice, I am probably already overcommitted. But I think it's a great idea.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

YES! (While it has not born fruit yet) I have been on a quest to streamline and reduce the number of commands for awhile now.

This is really important if we want to grow the player base.

I'm now officially adopting this quest for Fay. I'm planning to start marketing the game for a wider roguelike audience, and reducing the number of commands seems like a wise thing to do.

Would you or Antoine like to start a new thread about this? I'd love to hear your ideas.

[nppangband]

This is really important if we want to grow the player base.

I'm now officially adopting this quest for Fay. I'm planning to start marketing the game for a wider roguelike audience, and reducing the number of commands seems like a wise thing to do.

Would you or Antoine like to start a new thread about this? I'd love to hear your ideas.

I think there are a couple no-brainers to get us started:

Combine all of the use-object commands into one (quaff, read, fuel, aim, use, eat, zap, etc) into a single command of "use". Even activate could go into this command.
combine pray and cast into a single command.
Fire/Throw are redundant.
Commands to look at inventory and equipment.

Because of the knowledge screens, the command of '/' can be eliminated.

There are a bunch of commands for interacting with the dungeon that can be grouped together, but probably in more than one command: such as, alter, go up and down staircases, enter store, bash, open, close, jam, disarm, etc...

Then there are object specific commands, pickup, flip pickup, drop, inspect, destroy. Those can probably be strealmined into fewer commands as well.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

There are some benefits for not going all the way with the (u)se command. Namely, flavour, and getting a shorter list of objects to choose from.

I'd like to try something like this first:

(z)ap magic device -- for anything that requires Magic Device skill; uses up a charge
(e)at or drink -- automatic success, consumes the item
(r)ead, browse, perhaps learn spells -- all require light and not being confused

These commands unfortunately leave out refill. (For Fay, I've already solved this by removing lanterns and flasks of oil.)

[buzzkill]

It would be nice if we could use t for throw and find some other key to use for 'take off', maybe just use w for both. Press once to wield/wear, press again to un-wield/un-wear.

Get rid of m)agic and p)ray and use c for 'cast (a spell)'. Then use o to open or un-open (close) a door. I'm beginning to see a theme.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

I see two possible paths here:

1) The shortest possible list of commands
2) Streamlined set of commands, while still keeping much of the original roguelike flavour

Both paths would benefit greatly from an easier and quicker spellcasting/shooting interface. I believe it's possible to create a fast system that doesn't require the use of macros.

[Estie]

As for m)agic and p)ray, that has been done long ago; priests can access their spells with m) just like mages.

[d_m]

So when we were thinking about this for V, we wanted to distinguish two different ideas:

1. Creating the smallest possible set of "necessary commands" (this is the set of commands a beginner would need to learn)

2. Removing commands (that are obsolete, redundant, or for other reasons).

We could add a unified use command (without immediately removing all the individual commands) which means new players won't need to learn to distinguish aim/use/Activate/etc. (e.g. #1).

We could remove / (recall command) because other commands make it unnecessary and it doesn't work well with tiles (e.g. #2).

I will try to start a new thread about this, but I just wanted to distinguish these two things since they are sometimes conflated. I suspect removing the distinct "use" commands would not be popular (with veterans at least) but we should be able to accommodate new players and veterans with the strategy I mentioned.