Towards FAangband 1.2

[nppangband]

Item and monster lists should also be updated to V3.2.0 standard at least.

Well, the plan is to import the AngbandBase code, make everything work, and then import the higher level V stuff I want (plus things like your message patch).

Yep, that was my plan last June when I started. I think it took over 2 months before it would even compile. And another month before the game didn't crash every 5 minutes. There are just a bunch of little things, like the new flag system or options system that will keep you cutting and pasting for hours. The changes affect every little part of the code. I am glad I did it, but equally glad I am finished.

And then, after it compiles, there are all kinds of fun things to de-bug, like load/save functions that used to return -1 for failure and 0 for success, now return 0 for failure and 1 for success.

I have had whole releases where the changelist has been dominated by "Stole feature X from NPP"

No wonder it's so good then. Actually, I will look at what you took from NPP too. I think the best ideas get polished by being passed from variant to variant. One starts an idea, then another variant takes it and finds some little way to improve it.

[Fendell Orcbane]

Maybe black scorpions won't be such a death sentence for lower level characters. I swear black scorpions have killed more of my characters than winger dragons,balrogs and black reavers combined. The combination of speed,poison, and blindness is a killer. And unless you have a staff of teleportation you can't escape.

[LostTemplar]

Nrulings can kill too, not many others btw, when your char no longer fears this two, it is more or less sure win.
Dragons, balrogs, and black reavers never kill, they sleep until they die. Maybe something like storm of unmagic, and various mystics and sorcerers can be considered by late game threat, many uniques too e.g. Wiruin, but when you see that things, you probably already have destruction + ESP + unlimited detection. This remove any danger.

[Nick]

OK, Seany's idea has got into my brain:

Possibly some tweaking of the wilderness layout to mitigate the trek across half Middle Earth before Hobbits et al find a dungeon.

Yay - personally, I'd love to see the map expanded (maybe away from a paths format, towards a less-directional map where you could explore every square on the continent). Any chance of bringing in new explorable wilderness for areas without dungeons/guardians - Hithlum, Nevrast, Balar, even the First Age versions of Rhun or Harad?
Caveat: it could end up feeling a bit too much like ToME 2.X if you expand much beyond Beleriand, to be fair...

I have a rough plan, which goes something like this:

1. Construct a lerge map. This page has some examples where this could be drawn from; I particularly like this one (with the post-First-Age stuff removed, obviously).
2. Divide it into regions (West Beleriand, Eriador, etc).
3. Allocate a danger level and wilderness type (plain, forest, etc) to each grid.
4. Generate wilderness levels pretty much as now.

This map would then be an 'overworld map' rather like that in ToME 2, Z, etc - but for information only.

This will require some new terrain types - ice/snow, impassible mountains, impassible water. There will also need to be a rewrite of some of the level generation, notably mountains. Not all levels will be created equal - some may have quite small passable area. Teleport level will need another rethink. Random dungeons seem like a possibility. Monster and object generation should probably be region dependent. I can even see potential for a Wanderer (or something) class.

Perhaps the sensible thing to do is continue with the stuff I initially outlined for 1.2, then do all this for 1.3...we shall see.

[Nick]

At a first look, a map like this would have 50-odd regions, from Helcaraxe in the North-West to Ered Nimrais in the South-East - and that's if I stop short of Mirkwood.

Further to that changing object and monster generation based on region - I think maybe each region should have a monster and object level. So, for example, the frozen wastelands of the north would have nasty monsters, but not too many objects lying around.

In fact, maybe there should be a general nerfing of objects on the ground in wilderness, aside from wilderness vaults.

Also, revamp for towns and shops and maybe race starting locations.

This is getting out of hand.

[Fendell Orcbane]

Nrulings can kill too, not many others btw, when your char no longer fears this two, it is more or less sure win.
Dragons, balrogs, and black reavers never kill, they sleep until they die. Maybe something like storm of unmagic, and various mystics and sorcerers can be considered by late game threat, many uniques too e.g. Wiruin, but when you see that things, you probably already have destruction + ESP + unlimited detection. This remove any danger.

Nrulings can kill,but your High Elf has a Gondolin weapon and so you can kill them with a little luck....and I have to say you have to be careful around dragons. But yeah this game is all about getting your escapes in order. You know what spell I was abusing, create doors! I love that spell. It is almost like a poor man's ASC. Speaking of which I haven't really used those yet. I used to use them when I played V.

[LostTemplar]

Grid like map will be good, if levels will be permanent, so if you want more levels, you have to explore different areas. Currently you only need one level of a given danger and given type. Players will take shortest route from thier start to the place, they want anyway e.g. Amon Rhud. There is nothing bad with expanded map, but also nothing good unless you add more dungeons with unique guardians additional locations will be ignored.

[LostTemplar]

Nrulings can kill,but your High Elf has a Gondolin weapon and so you can kill them with a little luck....

Try dwarves / longbeards, they can kill scorpions.

[Nick]

Grid like map will be good, if levels will be permanent, so if you want more levels, you have to explore different areas. Currently you only need one level of a given danger and given type. Players will take shortest route from thier start to the place, they want anyway e.g. Amon Rhud. There is nothing bad with expanded map, but also nothing good unless you add more dungeons with unique guardians additional locations will be ignored.

The plan is still fairly new, but the idea is that it won't be a linear grid where you can always go in all directions. Travel will be much as it is now (paths will always increase the danger level 1 or 2), and depending where you are that may take you more or less apparent distance on the map.

I am not even entirely convinced that this will work yet, but I'm hopeful.

[LostTemplar]

Themed levels may be used as well as dungeons with guardians to lure players to otherwise worthless parts of the map.

[bio_hazard]

Have you had thoughts on how food/hunger should work on an overland map? For ease of gameplay it would be nice if you didn't have to tote around a million rations like you did in ToME. This would encourage exploring, and avoid some frustrating deaths.
Thematically, some regions would probably be rich with food and travelers could be assumed to forage for themselves without depleting their carried stores. In other areas, finding food would be a real problem, and hunger played a significant role in some of the journeys Tolkien described. I'm not necessarily suggesting this level of complexity be added, but I think one could justify having hunger work any way you wanted when thinking about long-distance travel.

[LostTemplar]

Overland map is for reference only, not for travel.

[LostTemplar]

IMHO currently mana burn is a bit broken. It adds very small amount of damage against monsters with mana, and reduce thier mana, so it is useless if monster dies before it's mana is reduced to 0, and this happens in 99% of fights, but it is extremely overpowered if monster mana is eliminated before monster is seriosly hurt e.g. Morgoth or Ungoliath.

It can be remade, so instead of reducing monster mana it only adds damage, proportional to mana, but this additional damage should be significant.

I want some feedback on this subject.

[HallucinationMushroom]

My experience with mana burn is with only one character, but it was so extremely effective against Morgoth, as you mentioned, that I was wanting a weapon of mana burn for my warriors to find just for the final fight.

[thapper]

IMHO currently mana burn is a bit broken. It adds very small amount of damage against monsters with mana, and reduce thier mana, so it is useless if monster dies before it's mana is reduced to 0, and this happens in 99% of fights, but it is extremely overpowered if monster mana is eliminated before monster is seriosly hurt e.g. Morgoth or Ungoliath.

It can be remade, so instead of reducing monster mana it only adds damage, proportional to mana, but this additional damage should be significant.

I want some feedback on this subject.

In my experience, with rouges and light weapons (mostly pre 1.1.6 if something changed there), many tougher monsters run out of mana before they die. I also don't have the feeling that the additional damage is so insignificant. On the contrary I have at times wondered how I'd be able to kill a monster when it ran out of mana and my damage dropped.

Can we get some raw numbers on how mana burn works? My feeling could be completely wrong...