Sangband 1.0.2 Beta

[Bostock]

A minor polish request (not to be confused with a minor Polish request): there are various nonsensical cases where monsters can hide behind trees or dodge, and most of them are fairly bearable, but monsters saving to hide behind trees to "defend themselves from the effects" of the very same Scroll of Forests that created the stinkin' trees is a bit overboard.

Thus I request that you polish your car until Sunday. Or something.

[NotMorgoth]

When I was trying to come up with some numbers for my Petty-Dwarves proposal, I was looking through manual.txt and tables.c for the data for the existing races and believe I have noticed some discrepancies between them.

However, I'm not entirely sure if the table of racial abilities in the manual is meant to correspond directly to any in-game values, or if it's just meant to be a guide that takes into account other things like skill difficulties, and maybe other factors I'm not aware of.

But assuming it does directly relate to the racial adjustments in tables.c, then, for example, Dunedain and High Elves seem to be better at melee than they should be while Half-Trolls and Dark-Elves are worse.

One other possible anomaly is that Half-Orcs appear to get 15 hit die, which is more than Half-Trolls and the same as Giants and Ents - the manual says it should be 13.

[NotMorgoth]

Some shapechanges seem to be available when they shouldn't be: I have only Shapechanging and Blood Dominion, but some of the Nature Lore forms (mouse and serpent) are also available.

[camlost]

Some shapechanges seem to be available when they shouldn't be: I have only Shapechanging and Blood Dominion, but some of the Nature Lore forms (mouse and serpent) are also available.

Yeah, I changed that -- forms become available when the average of shapechanging and the second skill reach the minimum power (I think shapechanging is still a hard requirement). I hope to make it more plausible to use shapechanging without requiring the use of other skills.

[Bostock]

Upon taking a magic oath (Black Mystery), later raising Throwing, and then in a later skill-screen session trying to reduce Throwing back to zero, I got the message "The Black Mystery cannot be undone!" Naturally, this message also appeared upon trying to zero Blood Dominion or Spellcasting... though not Wizardry.

The word "Druedain" in the manual's aptitudes chart's Druedain line contains garbage characters in place of the accented u. Beta 4 only; Windows.

[camlost]

Upon taking a magic oath (Black Mystery), later raising Throwing, and then in a later skill-screen session trying to reduce Throwing back to zero, I got the message "The Black Mystery cannot be undone!" Naturally, this message also appeared upon trying to zero Blood Dominion or Spellcasting... though not Wizardry.

The word "Druedain" in the manual's aptitudes chart's Druedain line contains garbage characters in place of the accented u. Beta 4 only; Windows.

Both fixed. Thanks for the bug reports.

[Bostock]

Generally there seems to be a design philosophy of "don't charge the player a turn for reminding of what they could already learn in-game at the cost of some tedium": zapping an unknown-empty wand costs a turn, but zapping known-empty does not; barehand on resistant monsters not in the memory costs a turn, barehand on "known" monsters does not.

So why does it cost a turn to be reminded that you need to disarm an existing trap to free up your equipment?

(We asked Morgoth this question and his reply was: "Because @#$@# you, that's why. All of you, but burglars especially.")

[Bostock]

Question time!

Is there any benefit to keeping fuel in one's light source of Shadows?

What benefits a shadowstalker: being in darkness, having his enemy be in darkness, or both?

What is the most important difference between lamplight and total darkness?

[NotMorgoth]

Actually, on the subject of shadowstalking, I was wondering if it might be a good idea for extinguishing your main light source to also extinguish all other sources of light.

There have been a number of occasions when I have wanted to shadowstalk, but have had to wear a glowing amulet etc for resistances.

It could be explained in 'realism' terms as covering up the glowing item under your cloak etc - maybe it should only work for items that could be easily covered - not glowing weapons or shields for example.

Alternatively, maybe shadow cloaks could give a light reducing effect like a lantern of shadows rather than invisibility (and perhaps the invisibility effect could be moved to ethereal cloaks.)

[Bostock]

I'm not so sure about that - it might make it too easy to decide against light sources of shadows. (And against amulets of trickery, which I only began to appreciate when I discovered that they are a light suppressant - that factor once literally made my decision in one game to favor Trickery over MIM.)

[NotMorgoth]

Ah, I didn't know that about amulets of trickery; I had begun to wonder what their purpose was as they only appear fairly late but didn't seem to be that useful compared to other late game amulets.

[camlost]

So why does it cost a turn to be reminded that you need to disarm an existing trap to free up your equipment?

Laziness, and the lack of a bug report.

Is there any benefit to keeping fuel in one's light source of Shadows?

I'm not sure, but I think that if you have another source of light, then lack of fuel in the shadows causes that light to not be suppressed.

What benefits a shadowstalker: being in darkness, having his enemy be in darkness, or both?

Being in darkness is certainly the more important.

What is the most important difference between lamplight and total darkness?

Increased stealth/invisibility? Reduced damage from some spells?

I was wondering if it might be a good idea for extinguishing your main light source to also extinguish all other sources of light.

Other magic items glow of their own free will. Take them off if you don't want them to give away your position. In game terms, let's call it additional gear optimization. I have switched away from shadowstalking to use glowing gear, but it there should be a decision there. The amulet of trickery was added in case you have trouble finding a lantern of shadow, and want to wear glowing gear.

[NotMorgoth]

On the subject of amulets, maybe now that Magical Protection has been improved (a lot,) it would be a good idea to revise its rarity/distribution.

As far as I can tell it can appear fairly early but stops appearing after DL70. In my opinion it is comparable with Magi in power/usefulness now it has a high resist, so perhaps should have similar depth and rarity.


Also, I think I can confirm an earlier bug report that using the lunge talent does not seem to use any time/energy so you can keep hitting the monster indefinitely.

[Bostock]

Thanks!

(Opinion on most important benefit of being in total darkness) Increased stealth/invisibility? Reduced damage from some spells?

Heh. Good answer to what was kind of an awkwardly worded question.

Just to confirm - there are combat benefits to being in the dark as well, yes? I subjectively feel like my battles go more easily when my shadowstalkers are in the dark, but maybe it's just my imagination.

[camlost]

Just to confirm - there are combat benefits to being in the dark as well, yes?

Here is an list of positives:

• Player takes less damage from spells
• Player is more invisible
• Player dodges better
• Guild-Burglars critical more often
• Player-cast necromancy spells stronger