So - what are your thoughts on wilderness?

[bio_hazard]

I think it depends on the game- I'm in a V mood now where the simplicity helps me to think more about playing better and less about the flavor.

However, I think given the proper implementation wilderness can add quite a bit to the flavor and story. I voted for abstract, but I think any of those, done properly, could really add to a game.

[EpicMan]

I much prefer having a wilderness and multiple towns/dungeons, and have a hard time playing vanilla or other variants without a wilderness because the world seems less interesting. Though I think my favorite wilderness implementations have been the scaled-out versions (TOME, Hengband, etc). I prefer those because it does make it easy to get back to towns/dungeons.

What does it add to a game? I enjoy reaching a new town and checking out what stock/services are available in a town. I enjoy deciding whether to brave a small side dungeon with harsh penalties (lava floors, underwater, etc) for the randart or other reward from slaying the guardian at the bottom.

Wilderness allows for a large world with multiple places to adventure and chill (towns), allows for interesting quests, a bigger storyline. It gives me all the things I like about playing a CRPG (except managing a party, which *Bands do well without) without the railroad, the inevitability of success, and without the boring 'attack or run' combat mini-games. It gives me my roguelike fix and my RPG fix all at once.

[Adley]

What are your thoughts on the Unangband wilderness? Is it sufficiently streamlined, or does it still have too much of a wilderness feel?

Andrew

It's nice and smooth. The wilderness areas provide some nice touristic landscape, and they don't harm travel.

[Big Al]

+1 vote for Unangband wilderness, which is closest to your Abstract Wilderness option, I guess. Adventuring over long distances is not really fun, but I do like going from dungeon to dungeon, killing the guardians and exploring.

[ThunderToads]

Wilderness is awesome. *bands without wilderness feel amputated to me. The last option on the poll sounds interesting, would be cool to see that done in a band.

[Bostock]

I suppose I should comment too.

Wilderness isn't necessary, but it can be fine and even fun, as long as it isn't a chore -- FAAngband, I'm looking at you. (The first time I played FAAngband, I immediately abandoned it because I didn't understand paths, my bad. But the second, time, I abandoned it because I'd reached like 18th clevel and still hadn't reached the shallowest dungeon, because it was all the way across a literal couple dozen maps away from my starting town (Longbeard).)

[Nick]

(The first time I played FAAngband, I immediately abandoned it because I didn't understand paths, my bad. But the second, time, I abandoned it because I'd reached like 18th clevel and still hadn't reached the shallowest dungeon, because it was all the way across a literal couple dozen maps away from my starting town (Longbeard).)

Well, it was the Valar and Morgoth who shaped Middle Earth. If you don't like the way they did it, I suggest you take it up with them...

Seriously, try a thrall or dungeon-only mode.

[Bostock]

Oh, but I enjoy wilderness as such, just not in such big doses.

What's a thrall?

[Nick]

What's a thrall?

A bit like a lost soul in ToME - you start on the steps of Angband in DL58 wilderness. At level 1.

[d_m]

I am probably the only V dev that really likes wilderness. Most of the wilderness implementations I've seen are interesting, but I have particularly fond memories of the Cthangband wilderness, with different dungeons marked on an overland map. I remember going to Kadath and getting my best character killed, for instance

The 3-D connected dungeon wilderness option sounds amazing, but I voted for the basic 2-D same resolution wilderness just because that's what I've enjoyed.

[Lord Fell]

The wilderness is probably the primary thing I disliked about FAangband. It kind of feels like an attempt at "open ended" play, like Oblivion has... but the scope of a Roguelike is just too limited for that to really work.

I tend to prefer the simplicity of Vanilla:
This is your town, this is your dungeon, this is your mission. Go hard.

[Nick]

The wilderness is probably the primary thing I disliked about FAangband. It kind of feels like an attempt at "open ended" play, like Oblivion has... but the scope of a Roguelike is just too limited for that to really work.

I see your point.

What I have tried (with I think some but not complete success) to do in FA is to make the wilderness a regular part of the game rather than an add-on. I don't expect any player to go to every bit of the wilderness - in fact, there may be bits that no-one will ever go to.

You're lucky you never played early versions where there was more wilderness

[Dean Anderson]

I am probably the only V dev that really likes wilderness. Most of the wilderness implementations I've seen are interesting, but I have particularly fond memories of the Cthangband wilderness, with different dungeons marked on an overland map. I remember going to Kadath and getting my best character killed, for instance

The 3-D connected dungeon wilderness option sounds amazing, but I voted for the basic 2-D same resolution wilderness just because that's what I've enjoyed.

Actually, the 3-D connected dungeon wilderness isn't as amazing as it sounds.

I experimented with it for Hellband (before talking wilderness out completely).

The problem is that although it means you can go anywhere, everywhere ends up the same so there's little reason to do so.

I think that for Yeekband I'm going to go back to the Cthangband-style of wilderness. That gave you a good reason to go to different dungeons and towns (and they were reasonably close together so it was hard to get lost), which made it far less tiresome and samey.

[will_asher]

Yeekband

Yeekband? This gives me the idea of having BadguyBand where the PC starts as a yeek, snaga or small kobold, and has to eventually kill the hero who killed Morgoth. Someone should totally do that.

[Adley]

Yeekband? This gives me the idea of having BadguyBand where the PC starts as a yeek, snaga or small kobold, and has to eventually kill the hero who killed Morgoth. Someone should totally do that.

Or start in the depths and go to the surface kill Valar (is that is name?) which actually is the black market maintainer.