So - what are your thoughts on wilderness?

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  • bio_hazard
    Knight
    • Dec 2008
    • 649

    #16
    I think it depends on the game- I'm in a V mood now where the simplicity helps me to think more about playing better and less about the flavor.

    However, I think given the proper implementation wilderness can add quite a bit to the flavor and story. I voted for abstract, but I think any of those, done properly, could really add to a game.

    Comment

    • EpicMan
      Swordsman
      • Dec 2009
      • 455

      #17
      I much prefer having a wilderness and multiple towns/dungeons, and have a hard time playing vanilla or other variants without a wilderness because the world seems less interesting. Though I think my favorite wilderness implementations have been the scaled-out versions (TOME, Hengband, etc). I prefer those because it does make it easy to get back to towns/dungeons.

      What does it add to a game? I enjoy reaching a new town and checking out what stock/services are available in a town. I enjoy deciding whether to brave a small side dungeon with harsh penalties (lava floors, underwater, etc) for the randart or other reward from slaying the guardian at the bottom.

      Wilderness allows for a large world with multiple places to adventure and chill (towns), allows for interesting quests, a bigger storyline. It gives me all the things I like about playing a CRPG (except managing a party, which *Bands do well without) without the railroad, the inevitability of success, and without the boring 'attack or run' combat mini-games. It gives me my roguelike fix and my RPG fix all at once.

      Comment

      • Adley
        Adept
        • Feb 2010
        • 185

        #18
        Originally posted by andrewdoull
        What are your thoughts on the Unangband wilderness? Is it sufficiently streamlined, or does it still have too much of a wilderness feel?

        Andrew
        It's nice and smooth. The wilderness areas provide some nice touristic landscape, and they don't harm travel.
        Originally posted by Derakon
        Sadly, every character ever created in Angband was given a magnifying glass by their eccentric uncle for their fifth birthday...

        Comment

        • Big Al
          Swordsman
          • Apr 2007
          • 327

          #19
          +1 vote for Unangband wilderness, which is closest to your Abstract Wilderness option, I guess. Adventuring over long distances is not really fun, but I do like going from dungeon to dungeon, killing the guardians and exploring.
          Come play Metroplexity!
          Un, V MX H- D c-- f- PV s- d+ P++ M+
          c-- S I++ So+ B+ ac- !GHB SQ RQ+ V+

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          • ThunderToads
            Scout
            • Jun 2008
            • 46

            #20
            Wilderness is awesome. *bands without wilderness feel amputated to me. The last option on the poll sounds interesting, would be cool to see that done in a band.

            Comment

            • Bostock
              Swordsman
              • Aug 2007
              • 335

              #21
              I suppose I should comment too.

              Wilderness isn't necessary, but it can be fine and even fun, as long as it isn't a chore -- FAAngband, I'm looking at you. (The first time I played FAAngband, I immediately abandoned it because I didn't understand paths, my bad. But the second, time, I abandoned it because I'd reached like 18th clevel and still hadn't reached the shallowest dungeon, because it was all the way across a literal couple dozen maps away from my starting town (Longbeard).)
              So you ride yourselves over the fields and you make all your animal deals and your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.

              Comment

              • Nick
                Vanilla maintainer
                • Apr 2007
                • 9633

                #22
                Originally posted by Bostock
                (The first time I played FAAngband, I immediately abandoned it because I didn't understand paths, my bad. But the second, time, I abandoned it because I'd reached like 18th clevel and still hadn't reached the shallowest dungeon, because it was all the way across a literal couple dozen maps away from my starting town (Longbeard).)
                Well, it was the Valar and Morgoth who shaped Middle Earth. If you don't like the way they did it, I suggest you take it up with them...

                Seriously, try a thrall or dungeon-only mode.
                One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                Comment

                • Bostock
                  Swordsman
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 335

                  #23
                  Oh, but I enjoy wilderness as such, just not in such big doses.

                  What's a thrall?
                  So you ride yourselves over the fields and you make all your animal deals and your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.

                  Comment

                  • Nick
                    Vanilla maintainer
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 9633

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Bostock
                    What's a thrall?
                    A bit like a lost soul in ToME - you start on the steps of Angband in DL58 wilderness. At level 1.
                    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                    Comment

                    • d_m
                      Angband Devteam member
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 1517

                      #25
                      I am probably the only V dev that really likes wilderness. Most of the wilderness implementations I've seen are interesting, but I have particularly fond memories of the Cthangband wilderness, with different dungeons marked on an overland map. I remember going to Kadath and getting my best character killed, for instance

                      The 3-D connected dungeon wilderness option sounds amazing, but I voted for the basic 2-D same resolution wilderness just because that's what I've enjoyed.
                      linux->xterm->screen->pmacs

                      Comment

                      • Lord Fell
                        Apprentice
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 89

                        #26
                        The wilderness is probably the primary thing I disliked about FAangband. It kind of feels like an attempt at "open ended" play, like Oblivion has... but the scope of a Roguelike is just too limited for that to really work.

                        I tend to prefer the simplicity of Vanilla:
                        This is your town, this is your dungeon, this is your mission. Go hard.

                        Comment

                        • Nick
                          Vanilla maintainer
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 9633

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Lord Fell
                          The wilderness is probably the primary thing I disliked about FAangband. It kind of feels like an attempt at "open ended" play, like Oblivion has... but the scope of a Roguelike is just too limited for that to really work.
                          I see your point.

                          What I have tried (with I think some but not complete success) to do in FA is to make the wilderness a regular part of the game rather than an add-on. I don't expect any player to go to every bit of the wilderness - in fact, there may be bits that no-one will ever go to.

                          You're lucky you never played early versions where there was more wilderness
                          One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                          In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                          Comment

                          • Dean Anderson
                            Adept
                            • Nov 2009
                            • 193

                            #28
                            Originally posted by d_m
                            I am probably the only V dev that really likes wilderness. Most of the wilderness implementations I've seen are interesting, but I have particularly fond memories of the Cthangband wilderness, with different dungeons marked on an overland map. I remember going to Kadath and getting my best character killed, for instance

                            The 3-D connected dungeon wilderness option sounds amazing, but I voted for the basic 2-D same resolution wilderness just because that's what I've enjoyed.
                            Actually, the 3-D connected dungeon wilderness isn't as amazing as it sounds.

                            I experimented with it for Hellband (before talking wilderness out completely).

                            The problem is that although it means you can go anywhere, everywhere ends up the same so there's little reason to do so.

                            I think that for Yeekband I'm going to go back to the Cthangband-style of wilderness. That gave you a good reason to go to different dungeons and towns (and they were reasonably close together so it was hard to get lost), which made it far less tiresome and samey.

                            Comment

                            • will_asher
                              DaJAngband Maintainer
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 1124

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Dean Anderson
                              Yeekband
                              Yeekband? This gives me the idea of having BadguyBand where the PC starts as a yeek, snaga or small kobold, and has to eventually kill the hero who killed Morgoth. Someone should totally do that.
                              Will_Asher
                              aka LibraryAdventurer

                              My old variant DaJAngband:
                              http://sites.google.com/site/dajangbandwebsite/home (defunct and so old it's forked from Angband 3.1.0 -I think- but it's probably playable...)

                              Comment

                              • Adley
                                Adept
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 185

                                #30
                                Originally posted by will_asher
                                Yeekband? This gives me the idea of having BadguyBand where the PC starts as a yeek, snaga or small kobold, and has to eventually kill the hero who killed Morgoth. Someone should totally do that.
                                Or start in the depths and go to the surface kill Valar (is that is name?) which actually is the black market maintainer.
                                Originally posted by Derakon
                                Sadly, every character ever created in Angband was given a magnifying glass by their eccentric uncle for their fifth birthday...

                                Comment

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