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Are you compiling the SVN version? Or an older version? I don't think I've introduced any errors with SDL, but who knows?
r136 should be stable. Try 'svn update -r 136' and try compiling again. Let me know if that helps, though I'm guessing not. I don't recall which SDL versions I've had success using, and I'm not logged into Linux right now.
Done.As for the second question, the most likely answer I can think of is gnomes; they are already possibly the best crossbowmen (outside the easy races) because they combine average cost/aptitude with a dex bonus, so maybe their skill with devices should extend to mechanical devices as well as magical ones.Leave a comment:
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Hellow, i'm not able to run sangband yet; i'm not filing a bug report because something tells me the problem is on my side.Regardless, i need some help.My compile log is above.I'm using the latest stable SDL(1.2.14); SDL_image(1.2.10); SDL_ttf(2.0.10); SDL_mixer(1.2.11); SDL_sound(1.0.3) .Code:1241 berin ~/skills-angband-read-only/src > make -fMakefile.sdl install gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o attack.o attack.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o birth.o birth.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o cave.o cave.c cave.c: In function 'update_view': cave.c:3254:7: warning: suggest parentheses around comparison in operand of '&' cave.c: In function 'project_path': cave.c:3981:8: warning: array subscript is below array bounds gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o cmd1.o cmd1.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o cmd2.o cmd2.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o cmd3.o cmd3.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o cmd4.o cmd4.c cmd4.c: In function 'do_cmd_options_aux': cmd4.c:1662:5: warning: implicit declaration of function 'calc_max_power' gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o cmd5.o cmd5.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o cmd6.o cmd6.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o dungeon.o dungeon.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o effects.o effects.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o files.o files.c files.c: In function 'file_character_options': files.c:3423:2: warning: implicit declaration of function 'calc_max_power' files.c:3425:3: warning: too many arguments for format gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o generate.o generate.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o history.o history.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o info.o info.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o init1.o init1.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o init2.o init2.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o loadsave.o loadsave.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o monattk.o monattk.c monattk.c: In function 'make_attack_ranged': monattk.c:2815:24: warning: array subscript is below array bounds gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o monmove.o monmove.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o monster1.o monster1.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o monster2.o monster2.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o obj_make.o obj_make.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o object1.o object1.c object1.c: In function 'get_item': object1.c:4186:6: warning: unused variable 'first_option' gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o object2.o object2.c object2.c: In function 'get_obj_num': object2.c:838:9: warning: unused variable 'new_index' gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o quest.o quest.c quest.c:27:13: warning: 'inn_quests' defined but not used gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o randart.o randart.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o skills.o skills.c skills.c: In function 'check_for_new_talent': skills.c:339:9: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o spells1.o spells1.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o spells2.o spells2.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o spells3.o spells3.c spells3.c: In function 'learn_about_wearable': spells3.c:3752:7: warning: unused variable 'sense_it' gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o store.o store.c store.c: In function 'store_process_command': store.c:3787:20: warning: unused variable 'invest' gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o tables.o tables.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o talents.o talents.c talents.c: In function 'do_talent': talents.c:1187:10: warning: unused variable 'stop' talents.c:1185:18: warning: unused variable 'o_ptr' talents.c:1184:19: warning: unused variable 'm_ptr' talents.c:1274:22: warning: unused variable 'bonus' talents.c:1274:14: warning: unused variable 'chance' talents.c:1274:9: warning: unused variable 'dam' talents.c: In function 'do_cmd_talents': talents.c:1576:6: warning: unused variable 'count' talents.c: In function 'do_talent': talents.c:378:6: warning: 'talent_skill' may be used uninitialized in this function gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o traps.o traps.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o util.o util.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o main-sdl.o main-sdl.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o intrface.o intrface.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o variable.o variable.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o wizard1.o wizard1.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o wizard2.o wizard2.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o xtra1.o xtra1.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o xtra2.o xtra2.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o z-file.o z-file.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o z-form.o z-form.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o z-rand.o z-rand.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o z-term.o z-term.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o z-util.o z-util.c gcc -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -c -o z-virt.o z-virt.c gcc -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -Wall -pipe -s -O2 -D"USE_SDL" -D"HAVE_MKSTEMP" -I/usr/include/SDL -o sangband attack.o birth.o cave.o cmd1.o cmd2.o cmd3.o cmd4.o cmd5.o cmd6.o dungeon.o effects.o files.o generate.o history.o info.o init1.o init2.o loadsave.o monattk.o monmove.o monster1.o monster2.o obj_make.o object1.o object2.o quest.o randart.o skills.o spells1.o spells2.o spells3.o store.o tables.o talents.o traps.o util.o main-sdl.o intrface.o variable.o wizard1.o wizard2.o xtra1.o xtra2.o z-file.o z-form.o z-rand.o z-term.o z-util.o z-virt.o -lSDL_ttf -lSDL_mixer -L/usr/lib -Wl,-rpath,/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread cp sangband .. 1243 berin ~/skills-angband-read-only/src > cd .. 1243 berin ~/skills-angband-read-only > ./sangband Segmentation fault
Could you tell me the SDL versions you have compiled it against?
Moving along, ncurses doesn't do it for me either:
I have ncurses 5.7.If you need mor information, please say so, any guess is a good guess; my distro is Lunar Linux, i can't think of more information to give right now beacause i had a few glasses of wine!!!Feel free to remind me.Code:1257 berin ~/skills-angband-read-only/src > make -fMakefile.std install gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o main.o main.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o main-gcu.o main-gcu.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o attack.o attack.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o birth.o birth.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o cave.o cave.c cave.c: In function 'update_view': cave.c:3254:7: warning: suggest parentheses around comparison in operand of '&' gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o cmd1.o cmd1.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o cmd2.o cmd2.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o cmd3.o cmd3.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o cmd4.o cmd4.c cmd4.c: In function 'do_cmd_options_aux': cmd4.c:1662:5: warning: implicit declaration of function 'calc_max_power' gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o cmd5.o cmd5.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o cmd6.o cmd6.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o dungeon.o dungeon.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o effects.o effects.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o files.o files.c files.c: In function 'file_character_options': files.c:3423:2: warning: implicit declaration of function 'calc_max_power' files.c:3425:3: warning: too many arguments for format gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o generate.o generate.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o history.o history.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o info.o info.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o init1.o init1.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o init2.o init2.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o loadsave.o loadsave.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o monmove.o monmove.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o monattk.o monattk.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o monster1.o monster1.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o monster2.o monster2.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o obj_make.o obj_make.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o object1.o object1.c object1.c: In function 'get_item': object1.c:4186:6: warning: unused variable 'first_option' gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o object2.o object2.c object2.c: In function 'get_obj_num': object2.c:838:9: warning: unused variable 'new_index' gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o quest.o quest.c quest.c:27:13: warning: 'inn_quests' defined but not used gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o randart.o randart.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o skills.o skills.c skills.c: In function 'check_for_new_talent': skills.c:339:9: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o spells1.o spells1.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o spells2.o spells2.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o spells3.o spells3.c spells3.c: In function 'learn_about_wearable': spells3.c:3752:7: warning: unused variable 'sense_it' gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o store.o store.c store.c: In function 'store_process_command': store.c:3787:20: warning: unused variable 'invest' gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o tables.o tables.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o talents.o talents.c talents.c: In function 'do_talent': talents.c:1187:10: warning: unused variable 'stop' talents.c:1185:18: warning: unused variable 'o_ptr' talents.c:1184:19: warning: unused variable 'm_ptr' talents.c:1274:22: warning: unused variable 'bonus' talents.c:1274:14: warning: unused variable 'chance' talents.c:1274:9: warning: unused variable 'dam' talents.c: In function 'do_cmd_talents': talents.c:1576:6: warning: unused variable 'count' gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o traps.o traps.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o util.o util.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o variable.o variable.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o wizard1.o wizard1.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o wizard2.o wizard2.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o xtra1.o xtra1.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o xtra2.o xtra2.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o z-term.o z-term.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o z-rand.o z-rand.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o z-form.o z-form.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o z-virt.o z-virt.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o z-util.o z-util.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -c -o z-file.o z-file.c gcc -I/usr/include/ncurses -Wall -D"USE_GCU" -D"USE_NCURSES" -DHAVE_MKSTEMP -o sangband main.o main-gcu.o attack.o birth.o cave.o cmd1.o cmd2.o cmd3.o cmd4.o cmd5.o cmd6.o dungeon.o effects.o files.o generate.o history.o info.o init1.o init2.o loadsave.o monmove.o monattk.o monster1.o monster2.o obj_make.o object1.o object2.o quest.o randart.o skills.o spells1.o spells2.o spells3.o store.o tables.o talents.o traps.o util.o variable.o wizard1.o wizard2.o xtra1.o xtra2.o z-term.o z-rand.o z-form.o z-virt.o z-util.o z-file.o -lncurses cp sangband .. 1258 berin ~/skills-angband-read-only/src > cd .. 0103 berin ~/skills-angband-read-only > ./sangband 0103 berin ~/skills-angband-read-only >
PS:I have being following this thread and your entusiasm is contagious, i am a rogue like noob, your in game knowledge is superior.Leave a comment:
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Something I've been thinking about for a while (not related to the dog issue: )
For almost every skill in Sangband, there is one or more races that are particularly good in that skill;
The exception is crossbows: no race has a cost of less than 10, and of those that do have 10, half orcs, half trolls and dwarves are generally bad with missiles, and dunedain and high elves are good with missiles but are 'easy' races.
So the question is, should there be a race that excels with crossbows, and if so, which one? The answer to the first might be no, if crossbows are already powerful enough in the hands of an average race.
As for the second question, the most likely answer I can think of is gnomes; they are already possibly the best crossbowmen (outside the easy races) because they combine average cost/aptitude with a dex bonus, so maybe their skill with devices should extend to mechanical devices as well as magical ones. This would also help differentiate them from dark elves, who have many similar abilities.Leave a comment:
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1. Buy wand of Spark, book, all the rest into phase door and CLW. Lantern from General Store optional.
2. While on D:1, bring MP up to 6, or 8 if being cautious.
3. Put all the rest into school skill unless in a crisis - then raise Devices instead to help solve it.
4. D:2 profit!
5. Kill Morgoth.Leave a comment:
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I generally pump mana to ~6 which gives 6 mana commonly before dropping down to DL2. I waited for 8 (skill ~9) frequently enough with the DE as their melee sucks. I don't increase spellcasting until I have at least 6 mana, as I don't usually need the other spells much, and I need the mana a lot. Waiting to recover mana doesn't work. The dogs heal most of the way back, but variance is high in the spell, so often you can kill them from 5 stars with a lucky roll. Or hit them once, let them melee, and when they flee, kill them with the last MM. I lose as many characters to novice warriors as to the dogs.
I just tested flasks of oil. The only one to hit with skill ~5 knocked off around 3 stars, so 3 hits should be enough. I wonder if untrained characters can hit with oil flasks.Leave a comment:
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Throwing and missiles I grant - but how do you get off 4 magic missiles without resting? You presumably have to be pretty lucky for the second to make the dog flee for long enough for you to recover mana but not so long that you can't kill it with the next one or two ...
I'll have to try it, but I suspect my ratio of characters killed by / surviving the dogs will go up a bit ...
If you gave oil flasks BRAND_FIRE that would enable those running out of mana to have a chance of a lucky hit. We did that in V and the number of complaints about the dogs has dropped noticeably!Leave a comment:
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You can take out the dogs with 2-4 magic missiles, or with throwing weapons pretty easily if you increase those. Probably missile weapons also.
The races are in flux, I just put some stuff on paper as a place to start from. I'll definitely consider moving woses to a more specialist martial druid role.Leave a comment:
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I didn't think they were necessarily meant to be the ultimate druid race - I assumed that was elves' role since the int/wis swap, and woses were more a bit like dwarves used to be, but with a tendency towards nature magic rather than piety.Leave a comment:
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This is HUGELY my experience - it's also why I can't play without a melee skill. The only way I can kill the dogs is to pump all my first skill points into my weapon or martial art skill, to get it to 9/10/11 before I fight the first dog. I can never defeat either dog with a caster because I run out of mana, and because my skill points have gone into magic I have no skill with a weapon! So I really don't understand at all how you can start a caster with no melee (or missile) skills.
My point about the wose wasn't that 11 is a terribly high casting skill per se, but that they are supposed to be the ultimate druid race. Yet as things stand they make far less attractive druids than elves, or even hobbits. I'd expect them to have 9 casting and/or 7 nature, and more expensive skills elsewhere.
IMO every race should have a path for which it is better suited than any other race (hobbit burglar, DE necro, giant wrestler etc.) - that doesn't mean that's the only viable build for that race, but it's the obvious one, and others are more challenging. Ideally the scoring mechanism would reward these non-obvious builds, but one thing at a time.Leave a comment:
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The late game annoying monsters are just that - annoying rather than really dangerous; a storm of unmagic is very unlikely to actually kill you, but it can wreck your equipment with disenchantment and charge draining, or force you to recall to restore lost stats. Unlike many of the others, storms of unmagic are always awake and can tunnel through walls.
Unmakers - look nasty on paper, but I've never really had much trouble with them. Shadow breeders, on the other hand, have often forced me to leave the level.
The monsters that have killed more of my characters than any other are (perhaps embarrassingly,) Farmer Maggot's dogs. Apart from them and manticores, I can't think of any monster that has killed more than one of my characters, though nearly all of my non-dog deaths have been from attempting quests.
I think there is a 'danger zone' from around dungeon levels 35-50 where it seems the power of monsters scales up much more quickly than that of the player character, so it suddenly gets much harder; it is here that most of my deaths occur, but if I can get past 50 then I have a very good chance of winning.
Regarding races - I've never really played giants much, so I was mostly speculating based on my experiences with other races, but of the races I have won with, the dwarf and half orc were significantly easier than the dark elf. I don't actually find hobbits that fragile, as their +2 con makes it much easier to get reasonable HP despite their low hit dice at the point in the game where it matters most.
Having said that, however, I did lose a lot of dwarf characters due to lack of stealth, while my hobbit won on the first attempt. (This was also playing with a dwarf priest, which would no longer be viable with the int/wis swap, though a dwarf necromancer looks like an intriguing idea...)Leave a comment:
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Jabberwocks, Storms of Unmagic... later in the game, avoiding monsters is usually easier. How about unmakers -- they breed.
Manticores are fast and have a powerful missile attack, but they also drop an exceptional treasure, which is pretty sweet.
As far as making monster less painful, I reduced the casting rate of Manticores (fewer missiles, but still fast), Nruling (having a moment where they don't blink away is nice), and Lightningjaws (so you can actually kill them) seems pretty nice. I slowed Stormcrows to normal speed, but I'll probably make them fast +5 (was +10 before) and reduce their cast rate to 1 in 2 (was 1 in 1) and give them a better physical attack. That way, you won't be able to kill them as they come around a corner, at least not all the time.
Just for the record, pink elephants and lucksuckers seem more like nuisances than dangers (at least alone), and Stormcrows will eventually move you somewhere where you can heal and/or teleport. I think I've only actually died to lightningjaws of the ones listed here. I have lost lots of scrolls to Nrulings, though.
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Correct about the races. It was an attempt to keep the races balanced, and I made them better with weapons, so magic seemed the natural tradeoff; an 11 cost skill is hardly a major gimp.
Regarding giants, you can tell from my winner history that I think they're good, but I'm probably going to win with a dark-elf, and there's a hobbit winner in my history also. As I've said elsewhere, HP will be more front-loaded for all races, so playing other races should be easier.Leave a comment:
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