Mechanic idea for a variant...monster generator

[Jude]

OK, so one of the virtues of Angband is that you don't have to graphically animate monsters, so it's really easy to create them and as a result the monster list is enormous...lots of variety.

But what if you could make a program that would randomly generate monsters? It could pick first a letter, then a name based on input provided for creatures of that type, then take certain abilities and attack properties and so on and combine them to make a monster. Depth and experience value would be calculated as a function of what abilities it had. Obviously it would take some work to make it consistently turn out coherent and non-overpowered monsters, but it could be really interesting.

Also, if you run into one you like in the dungeon, there could be a key to add it into the permanent monster list or something.

Thoughts?

[Djabanete]

I'd be more interested in randomized uniques than randomized standard monsters. In fact, I could imagine a "randomized uniques" option just like the "randomized artifacts" that would generate a list of uniques based on standard monsters, but with additional random powers.

Edit: Also, the title of this thread made me think of a completely different idea; monster-generating machines which could be disarmed like traps and which would periodically cause monsters to appear next to them. These could produce specific kinds of monsters: "serpent generator", "demon portal", etc.

[Narvius]

Actually, more like "Serpent Pit".
Nice ideas, both.

[zaimoni]

Edit: Also, the title of this thread made me think of a completely different idea; monster-generating machines which could be disarmed like traps and which would periodically cause monsters to appear next to them. These could produce specific kinds of monsters: "serpent generator", "demon portal", etc.

Gauntlet, the RL!

[Jude]

I'd be more interested in randomized uniques than randomized standard monsters. In fact, I could imagine a "randomized uniques" option just like the "randomized artifacts" that would generate a list of uniques based on standard monsters, but with additional random powers.

Edit: Also, the title of this thread made me think of a completely different idea; monster-generating machines which could be disarmed like traps and which would periodically cause monsters to appear next to them. These could produce specific kinds of monsters: "serpent generator", "demon portal", etc.

I thought of the same thing when I posted it, actually. That would be cool too.

Maybe I'll stick this suggestion in the latest thread about Z+. I still haven't played that though, since I can't figure out how to make the walls turn from #'s to plain blocks...

[Mangojuice]

I thought of the same thing when I posted it, actually. That would be cool too.

Maybe I'll stick this suggestion in the latest thread about Z+. I still haven't played that though, since I can't figure out how to make the walls turn from #'s to plain blocks...

See the "Known Issues" section of the website. There are multiple solutions mentioned there.

Actually, Z+ (and many other variants) already have monster generators. That is, they have monsters that can summon monsters, which is really pretty much the same idea.

[Atarlost]

The original idea wasn't a monster generator. It was a monster type generator.

[Jude]

The original idea wasn't a monster generator. It was a monster type generator.

Yeah...as the one guy said it might work better with just uniques, but why don't you give it a try? It could be really interesting with just uniques or with all monsters.

[Nick]

Also, the title of this thread made me think of a completely different idea; monster-generating machines which could be disarmed like traps and which would periodically cause monsters to appear next to them. These could produce specific kinds of monsters: "serpent generator", "demon portal", etc.

In his early writing, Tolkien had "serpents of iron", which were big dragon-like machines full of orcs and trolls; in the siege of Gondolin, they climbed up to the city and broke open, and all the baddies came running out. Not quite a generating machine, but close.

[Mangojuice]

Yeah...as the one guy said it might work better with just uniques, but why don't you give it a try? It could be really interesting with just uniques or with all monsters.

It might be reasonable to make Z+Angband single monster quests make random uniques (when the target isn't already unique). So instead of killing a Snaga, you have to kill the random "Lukbar, the Snaga" that only exists in that quest. It could work, I'd have to think about it.

Also, it's really not clear to me how you would upgrade a monster to a unique version. I could, naturally, upgrade hit dice, AC, and damage. That alone, though, would be pretty boring; basically, all you get that's interesting is the unique name.

[Narvius]

Random resists and some powerful abilites, like advanced spellcasting or just some huge escorts.
The best would be something absolutely not fitting to the given race, like sluggish, thunder-breathing cave spiders or almost indestructible, almost melee-instakilling kobolds.
Could be fun;
Imagine a player thinking "Lukbar, the Snaga, huh? Piece of cake."
He enters the level, with ~900 HP.

Lukbar, the Snaga commands you to return!
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are paralyzed!
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are blinded!
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are given heavy cuts.
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are paralyzed!
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are blinded!
You die.

[Mangojuice]

Random resists and some powerful abilites, like advanced spellcasting or just some huge escorts.
The best would be something absolutely not fitting to the given race, like sluggish, thunder-breathing cave spiders or almost indestructible, almost melee-instakilling kobolds.
Could be fun;
Imagine a player thinking "Lukbar, the Snaga, huh? Piece of cake."
He enters the level, with ~900 HP.

Lukbar, the Snaga commands you to return!
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are paralyzed!
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are blinded!
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are given heavy cuts.
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are paralyzed!
Lukbar, the Snaga hits you!
You are blinded!
You die.

That illustrates the difficulty of this very nicely. It would be quite unfair to have a unique Orc that behaves fundamentally like a Lich and not an Orc. But does that mean the game has to understand the monsters at a deeper level than it does?

I guess the unfairness would be temporary: once the player is used to the idea that uniques could do anything, they can approach them properly. But nonetheless, I wouldn't want this until I could make random unique orcs that feel like orcs, but also have random unique (say) dark elves that feel like dark elves, et cetera.

[Variaz]

I had this implemented for a while in Portralis, where at the end of random non-quest dungeons, you have a random boss with random attacks, spells, etc... It works well, plus, the RNG never fails to make me laugh with random, syllab-based names!

The next build features random monsters as well. What I did is though they are mostly entirely random, there are race-specific attributes. Ghosts, for example, can always move through walls. Mold enemies do not move, while floating eyes have 50% chances of not being to move. Birds and other winged enemies can fly over mountains/pits, demons are evil, etc...So it keeps the unique feel of many monster kinds, while adding a good amount of unpredictability.

[Atarlost]

There are existing orcs. They have numerical properties and non-numerical properties. Weighting non-numerical properties must be done by hand I think, but once done the point value of the non-numerical properties can be treated as another numerical property. Unique would be a non-numerical trait with some negative value to encourage uniques to be some amount stronger than non-uniques.

Any time you need a new unique orc take the existing unique orcs and fit a curve to them for each numerical value plotted against the orc's level. Possibly an exponential curve. Possibly a quadratic. Maybe something else, whatever. Then find your average deviation from that curve and select a value for your new orc of within that deviation of the curve's value of the desired level.

For non-numerical traits place unique and all traits orcs have in common in one list. Place all traits any orcs have in a second list. Add traits based on the traits already there. (eg. if cause wounds 1 is there higher level incarnations should have the opportunity to have all cause wounds spells even if no hardcoded monsters of the type have anything higher) select traits to the point value of traits found when processing numerical traits minus the sum value of all traits in the first list. Add the traits from the first list.

You now have a unique orc that looks like an orc. It should also create liches that look like liches and people that look like people.

[Donald Jonker]

diablo2's random uniques come to mind. A given unique has an elemental attack, a slowing attack, a stunning attack, moves extra quickly, teleports, burns mana, has physical/magical damage resistance, ultra high AC, reverts a percentage of damage that it takes back to you, &c., &c.