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  • Nick
    Vanilla maintainer
    • Apr 2007
    • 9637

    #46
    Originally posted by NCountr
    Since about 19-Always, Townies used to drop stuff. We also used to haggle over prices with the shop owners. And, yes, the Ancient Multi-hued D used to be something to be feared and revered... which is why we had wands of Wall Building. Poison breath attacks were nightmares and players had to be crafty about bouncing attacks off walls to damage such mobs before they had Line of Sight on the character. Well, we grew out of that and drops from Townies dissipated as well.

    I don't know why or what's wrong with players who want to spend inordinate amounts of time with townies and their meager drops, but somewhere, someone decided they didn't want players hanging around town. Now we have to set a birth option just to be allowed to sell stuff to the shop keepers.

    My original gripe is about the Game Designer(s) that have wanted to ratchet up Powerful Base Elemental attacks in another attempt to infuse hardship for the player. Yes, Stat Damage has been in the game in versions prior. But, my counter, so has a lot of other stuff that has been 'ruled out': like Townie drops. You can't go cherry-picking your historical references to rebut my charges. They have no value, like a lot of Level 0-1 potions. We used to get shopkeepers to buy and ID them on the cheap---that was a useful strategy back in the day.

    Oh... but, but, but... . Yeah, right. Give me back shards of pottery and we'll talk.
    So basically what you're complaining about is anything you personally don't like, and your scope is the entire development of Angband from when it forked from Moria (or maybe before) until now, and also how other people play.

    This clarifies things for me
    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

    Comment

    • NCountr
      Apprentice
      • Sep 2016
      • 53

      #47
      Originally posted by Nick
      So basically what you're complaining about is anything you personally don't like, and your scope is the entire development of Angband from when it forked from Moria (or maybe before) until now, and also how other people play.

      This clarifies things for me
      Partially correct. I'm complaining about how the YesMen often resort to it's always been like wxyz, go split off yer own code and stick a Fork in it!. But, when I give counter arguments destroying the It's-Always-Been-That-Way argument, I suddenly get the rebuttal you just pushed -- "Yer an old foggie who can't accept change!" -- argument.

      You cannot have it both ways. Either you accept that you've made changes and I can therefore critique them, or you look extremely weak otherwise. And it's the entourage of YesMen that push you into these weak positions.

      I would rather hear you come back and say, "hmmm.. that point has some merit, let's look into this", "yeah, I might have over committed on that one", or, "no, I don't agree - here's why ... ", and discuss the points logically.

      But, no, immediately, the YesMen circle like Time Hounds and defend the Commander with trite quips and uninspired back-talk. All-in-all a weak showing.

      Mage's are too powerful moan the cliche'd crowd of YesMen. Followed quickly with the uneducated reasoning of, Dimension Door has wrecked the game!.

      I recant the real reason behind what has "wrecked" the game and I see nothing but belly-aching and rants about how I don't know jack-Moria. Fine. Sit in your cubicles of Yes-ness and believe that Dimension Door is why the game is where it is.

      Comment

      • NCountr
        Apprentice
        • Sep 2016
        • 53

        #48
        Originally posted by Pete Mack
        Here you go:
        keymap: s
        string: R10[Enter]$
        Here [Enter] is the result of the enter key.
        And not a macro, so no weird side effects. It's only certain games that still need them, like Tome (to toggle stance) and Sil (to toggle fire arrows)
        Thank you. Someday, I'll figure out how to remap keys. I think it is in the ? help.

        Comment

        • Nick
          Vanilla maintainer
          • Apr 2007
          • 9637

          #49
          Originally posted by NCountr
          Thank you. Someday, I'll figure out how to remap keys. I think it is in the ? help.
          The ? help has been gutted, and the extensive help files are now online - keymap help is here.
          One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
          In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

          Comment

          • wobbly
            Prophet
            • May 2012
            • 2631

            #50
            Originally posted by NCountr
            and discuss the points logically.
            The trouble is you are asking for a kind of respect you aren't prepared to give yourself. If you want discussion based on logic, start arguing based on logic rather then rambling about the Illuminati of YesMen. People only brought up "the way it is always have been-ith" because you suggested changes were introduced.

            Shrug. The thing is I enjoy nonsense for its own sense, so I'll post it just for the kicks. You sound like you actually want to get a game change in. Try halving the nonsense and sticking to the actual point. At the moment I'm not sure what your point even is?

            Comment

            • Julian
              Adept
              • Apr 2021
              • 122

              #51
              Originally posted by Nick
              The ? help has been gutted, and the extensive help files are now online - keymap help is here.
              Just for the record; IMO this was a terrible idea. An off-line game should have off-line help.

              Comment

              • emar
                Apprentice
                • Jul 2019
                • 50

                #52
                Originally posted by Julian
                Just for the record; IMO this was a terrible idea. An off-line game should have off-line help.
                I strongly agree with this. Not everyone has unlimited connectivity or data.

                Comment

                • backwardsEric
                  Knight
                  • Aug 2019
                  • 527

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Julian
                  Just for the record; IMO this was a terrible idea. An off-line game should have off-line help.
                  For 4.2.2, the .zip file for Windows and the .dmg file for macOS include the HTML versions of the help. In the .zip file, the help is in the docs directory; in the .dmg file, it is in the Docs directory.

                  Comment

                  • NCountr
                    Apprentice
                    • Sep 2016
                    • 53

                    #54
                    Wand of Clone Monster bug

                    The wand only works when the mob is awake. If that is a new feature, I'm behind the times. But, it used to work regardless of mob state in 3.x.

                    In Project-mob.c -
                    /* Attempt to clone. */
                    if (multiply_monster(cave, context->mon))
                    context->hurt_msg = MON_MSG_SPAWN;


                    --- does not seem to work because, of bool sleep in mon-make.c's code:
                    * If `sleep` is true, the monster is placed with its default sleep value,
                    * which is given in monster.txt.
                    *
                    ... */
                    bool place_new_monster(struct chunk *c, struct loc grid,
                    struct monster_race *race, bool sleep, bool group_ok,
                    struct monster_group_info group_info, byte origin)

                    In this case, if the mob is already asleep, the wand of clone monster successfully speeds up the mob, but does not clone it because the mob is asleep and generate.c cannot place a "wake", cloned mob asleep in a grid square. So, I believe the line in mon-move.c -
                    bool multiply_monster(struct chunk *c, const struct monster *mon)
                    simply returns FALSE without dropping a new mob or a dump file to debug. Good code, possibly faulty logic.

                    Comment

                    • NCountr
                      Apprentice
                      • Sep 2016
                      • 53

                      #55
                      How to make Late Game Mages better.

                      Originally posted by wobbly
                      The thing is I enjoy nonsense for its own sense, so I'll post it just for the kicks. You sound like you actually want to get a game change in. Try halving the nonsense and sticking to the actual point. At the moment I'm not sure what your point even is?
                      I've made my suggestion numerous times, but I'll reiterate it once more.

                      In order to improve End Game interest / fun AND to improve Mage and spell-casters all around, I have put it to the Development Crew to have classes acquire spells in a spell-scroll system, adding them to binders.

                      This way, spell-casters do not crank up power in huge swaths as they currently do with the Book-at-once system. Given that the powerful books are found when the spell-casters are typically at or beyond the class levels necessary to learn them, they tend to learn the Book-at-Once. Hence, finding Raal's in 3.x or Arcane in 4.x for Mage classes equates to a phenomenal increase in power for the player ... just for picking up a copy.

                      Moving to a spell-scroll system, spell casters will only increase power piece-meal as scrolls are found, learned, and bound to binders. Otherwise, they're simply finding single-use scrolls, e.g., like a Scroll of Protection From Evil, read-once, consumed, gone forever. The UI knows the difference if the player "G"ains the scroll (and the system then prompts the player for a Binder to attach it to) or "r"eads it for 1-time use.

                      Spell-casters will be able to learn ~80% of the total spells, but the total number of spells out there should increase from the current ~40-some per class to 60-80. More utility spells. More attack spells. More defense spells per class. Say Max level 50 Mage can learn a total of 50-52 spells. Higher level spell scrolls will be rarer to find (but, should be easier to come across than the current rarity of High Level Books). Nearly all spells should be find-able by dungeon level 80.

                      You are not penalizing Mages. You are not bolstering other classes (warriors, thieves, etc.). You are giving the spell-casters (and abilities for thief/warrior classes, if one wishes to pursue those classes as well) more flexibility, more choice, more strategy in the game. You increase the level of interest into the Late-Game without penalizing a soul, without giving mobs yet another indefensible attack (Time, Gravity, Water, Force, Plasma, Mana, and so on) or another 10000 of health and +15 speed and 40 mob summons. You're also not giving warriors 14 extra swings per round or +3 extra Movement steps in attempt to make warriors somehow as good as mages supposedly are.

                      Comment

                      • backwardsEric
                        Knight
                        • Aug 2019
                        • 527

                        #56
                        Originally posted by NCountr
                        The wand only works when the mob is awake. If that is a new feature, I'm behind the times. But, it used to work regardless of mob state in 3.x.
                        I can't reproduce that with the current development version: using a clone monster wand on an asleep monster works just as well as on an awake one. That agrees with what I see in the code: multiply_monster() doesn't check whether the monster being cloned is asleep or awake and place_new_monster() doesn't either - it's only told that the new monster will be awake when it is placed.

                        What can cause the cloning part of the activation to fail is not finding an empty square that's within one grid of the monster and within line of sight. So, using the wand on a monster in a dead end of a corridor when you're right next to it is guaranteed not to generate copy. With an empty space between you and the monster, it's virtually certain (1 - (8/9)^18000) that you'll get a copy.

                        Comment

                        • Nick
                          Vanilla maintainer
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 9637

                          #57
                          Originally posted by backwardsEric
                          For 4.2.2, the .zip file for Windows and the .dmg file for macOS include the HTML versions of the help. In the .zip file, the help is in the docs directory; in the .dmg file, it is in the Docs directory.
                          Moreover, the raw docs are quite readable and sitting in the docs directory, and backwardsEric has included instructions explaining how to compile the docs locally yourself. Of course, the instructions are in the docs...
                          One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                          In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                          Comment

                          • Nick
                            Vanilla maintainer
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 9637

                            #58
                            Originally posted by NCountr
                            I've made my suggestion numerous times, but I'll reiterate it once more.
                            And I'll reiterate my answer, which is in short "Intriguing idea, I'm not totally revamping the game when the paint's not even dry on the last revamp".
                            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                            In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                            Comment

                            • NCountr
                              Apprentice
                              • Sep 2016
                              • 53

                              #59
                              Originally posted by backwardsEric
                              I can't reproduce that with the current development version: using a clone monster wand on an asleep monster works just as well as on an awake one. That agrees with what I see in the code: multiply_monster() doesn't check whether the monster being cloned is asleep or awake and place_new_monster() doesn't either - it's only told that the new monster will be awake when it is placed.

                              What can cause the cloning part of the activation to fail is not finding an empty square that's within one grid of the monster and within line of sight. So, using the wand on a monster in a dead end of a corridor when you're right next to it is guaranteed not to generate copy. With an empty space between you and the monster, it's virtually certain (1 - (8/9)^18000) that you'll get a copy.
                              Wasn't an issue with finding a grid square. Try this---the mob was not an original mob on the level, but was generated later on into the level, asleep.

                              Comment

                              • NCountr
                                Apprentice
                                • Sep 2016
                                • 53

                                #60
                                Nexus Effect Altered?

                                Originally posted by Nick
                                And I'll reiterate my answer, which is in short "Intriguing idea, I'm not totally revamping the game when the paint's not even dry on the last revamp".
                                @Wobbly prompted. I answered.


                                Next up, when / why was NEXUS altered to be Up/Down level only?
                                No more stat-scramble or just being sent away ~50-60 squares away?

                                Comment

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