What is up with level feelings?

[Egavactip]

So the past few days I have been trying 4.2.x. I tried some early version of it a while ago but there were too many problems. Now I decided to try again, and I have many many questions but the dominant one in my mind right now is what is up with level feelings (or, alternatively, what is up with level difficulty)?

So far, my experience has been that danger levels are higher than treasure levels on a given level about 95% of the time, perhaps more, and that more often than not it is ridiculously mismatched, like the level I am on now, DL21, which is 9 in terms of difficulty and 2 in terms of reward. 7, 8, and 9 difficulty levels are more common than sneezes, it seems, while most levels have been barren as a desert in terms of treasure.

I thought at first there was simply some change in how level feelings were calculated and that the actual differences were not that much, but my play so far has seemed to bear out that a 1-treasure level is indeed pretty much a 1-treasure level.

So far these disparities seem so extreme, and ridiculously too-powerful levels seem so common that something seems seriously broken.

So what am I not understanding or don't know yet? Because I am seriously confused, with no rod of curing in sight.

[DavidMedley]

When you get a 9-2 level feeling, head for the exit.

[whartung]

When you get a 9-2 level feeling, head for the exit.

Yea, quickly.

A 9-2 means that the game for some reason decided to plonk a very high level creature on to your level. But, most likely, worse, it decided to NOT plonk it in to a nice, locked up vault. It simply plopped it in place on a crummy level. So you have a random wandering horror out there among the shards of pottery and cobwebs.

High level treasure feelings (again, IME) tend to follow vaults which bring treasure with them, and then fill them with nasty monsters.

But, at lower levels, vaults are rarer. So, more chances of Randy McNasty and no loot.

[Nick]

It has been a fairly common comment that 4.2 is harder than previous versions. I haven't really watched level feelings - do they need re-calibrating, perhaps?

[mrfy]

It has been a fairly common comment that 4.2 is harder than previous versions. I haven't really watched level feelings - do they need re-calibrating, perhaps?

I don't think they do. IMO they seem to represent (at least for the monster difficulty) fairly accurately what is on the level.

[mrfy]

Yea, quickly.

A 9-2 means that the game for some reason decided to plonk a very high level creature on to your level. But, most likely, worse, it decided to NOT plonk it in to a nice, locked up vault. It simply plopped it in place on a crummy level. So you have a random wandering horror out there among the shards of pottery and cobwebs.

Not necessarily. At shallower levels, it is more likely to indicate a pit full of bugs, or orcs, etc. Individually they're not bad, but the numbers add up. I enjoy those levels, by teasing out the denizens a few at a time and destroying them.

Detection is key, either through spells, staves or rods. Even as a priest, I carry a rod of Detection, since their Detect Evil prayer doesn't show everything.

High level treasure feelings (again, IME) tend to follow vaults which bring treasure with them, and then fill them with nasty monsters.

Could also mean an artifact waiting to be found.

[mrfy]

When you get a 9-2 level feeling, head for the exit.

I'm more likely to explore to discover who might be there to create the omens of death. It could be a pit of multiple monsters which you can take on a few at a time.

[bughunter]

I don't think they do. IMO they seem to represent (at least for the monster difficulty) fairly accurately what is on the level.

For threat level, it seems to be more accurate than treasure level. If I feel "Omens of Death" I can be pretty sure there's a big nasty unique. (But it doesn't correlate to the threat to my specific character, like it seems to ignore that I have immunity or resistance to its attacks.)

As for treasure, I've found nifty artifacts just lying on the floor in a level with a low (under 5) treasure feeling, and also gotten very nice drops from monsters on levels with treasure feelings of 2 or 3.

Do the treasure level feelings include items that will be dropped by mobs?

I tend to explore out every level, at least the rooms with something indicated by a Detect Treasure. And after once finding Anduril just lying on the floor in the middle of an otherwise empty, out of the way room on a shallow 5-2 level, I've come to suspect that the level feelings might include intentional errors.

(Or it's just borked.)

So far, I've found very little to discourage my tendency to fully explore most levels... one formed by decades of playing nethack and thus hard to resist.

[PowerWyrm]

Level 9-2 means high reward: not treasure but experience. It is always a pit or two (usually full of beetles, scorpions and spiders) early on and if your character is strong enough you will be able to get a ton of levels.

[Adam]

Level 9-2 means high reward: not treasure but experience. It is always a pit or two (usually full of beetles, scorpions and spiders) early on and if your character is strong enough you will be able to get a ton of levels.

Unless you run into some monters which can teleport @ into the room which can be game over if @ has no teleport self yet.

[fph]

Unless you run into some monters which can teleport @ into the room which can be game over if @ has no teleport self yet.

Do you usually explore without ?phase door in the early game? Usually I try to keep them with me starting from level 1. They have saved my @ multiple times in situations like this one.

[moosferatu]

I tend to explore out every level, at least the rooms with something indicated by a Detect Treasure. And after once finding Anduril just lying on the floor in the middle of an otherwise empty, out of the way room on a shallow 5-2 level, I've come to suspect that the level feelings might include intentional errors.

(Or it's just borked.)

I feel the same. In my last game I found Aglarang and the Arkenstone (I'm not experienced enough to know how rare or comparatively good it is, but I thought it was kick-ass.) just hanging out by themselves on low level-feel DLs.

[fph]

Actually I think 5 is precisely the treasure feeling for a level with a lone artifact on the floor and nothing much else. So don't think that 5 = low.

[DavidMedley]

I'm more likely to explore to discover who might be there to create the omens of death. It could be a pit of multiple monsters which you can take on a few at a time.

When I get the 9-? feeling I do this. When it expands to 9-2, I'm out if I haven't found a reason to stay. But I could be wrong.

[Sphara]

Early high danger feeling is almost certainly a pit (ants, beetles, minor demons). I very often clear ant pits if I have a ranged option. But I agree on the op feeling there, that high-danger levels seem to be very common already in the early game. Low-danger levels quickly become exceedingly rare. Has someone actually seen a 1-? level after like DL15 or is it even possible?

Finding Anduril on a floor on 5-2 level should not happen and I'd call it a game bug. If it really happened. I have played this game a bunch and I've never ever found even a lowly artifact on a floor below treasure feeling 5. Would be happy to be proved corrected, though.