Reduce the satiation gained from Healing and Healing

**Ingwe Ingweron** · May 17, 2020, 20:36

I'm in full agreement. Having Hunger be relevant is fine by me, but the balance needs some work.

**spara** · May 17, 2020, 21:05

I find it kind of amusing that most of the time my warrior is on a liquid diet. No need for other sources of nutrition.

**archolewa** · May 18, 2020, 00:03

I don't recall having such problems with my most recent warrior, though I usually try to get my satiation around 75% (resting for a bunch of turns in town if I have to) before descending. The only times I've ever run into the satiation problem with potions is the early game when I'm phasing away and throwing back Cure Light Wounds while fighting tough uniques.

**Sky** · May 18, 2020, 00:21

i'm pretty sure that Nick has already this planned for the next release which should be fairly soon.

**Nick** · May 18, 2020, 02:56

OK, so you have a meter at the bottom showing your current hunger level to the nearest 1%, every piece of food tells you how much it's going to affect that meter, you know how many healing potions you have and how much they fill you up (1%) - isn't it just a small amount of planning plus arithmetic?

EDIT: Possibly that is a little harsh, but I think the point is valid

**DavidMedley** · May 21, 2020, 14:43

Originally posted by Nick

OK, so you have a meter at the bottom showing your current hunger level to the nearest 1%, every piece of food tells you how much it's going to affect that meter, you know how many healing potions you have and how much they fill you up (1%) - isn't it just a small amount of planning plus arithmetic?

EDIT: Possibly that is a little harsh, but I think the point is valid

Healing and *HEALING* increase by 2% and 3%. Which is not at all to dispute your main point.

I'll suggest again that all potions should nourish the same amount. I don't picture *HEALING* being 3x larger than CLW, just more potent. Also, they weigh the same.

**Sphara** · May 21, 2020, 15:52

I could live with 2% and 3% fill rates during the game, even when I had that dumb-ass Slow Digestion (Vilya). But before the final fight, I was a little under 70% satiation level in town after Sauron-fight. Ofc no mushrooms of purging were in shops. So I should have ´R´ested for several thousand turns, right?

Just reduce the satiation level of bigger healing potions to 1%. Current system ruins warrior endgame!

This ofc is all subjective. I hate food mini-game anyway and would cheer to see it gone, but I know it´s not going to happen.

**Thraalbee** · May 21, 2020, 21:32

Slow digestion could be changed to improved digestion and double burn food when over a certain limit. That would be helpful instead of near curse

**Nick** · May 21, 2020, 22:49

OK, sorry, I was completely missing that the big healing potions satiated more (don't ask me how). They can come down to 1. In fact, would anyone care if Healing and *Healing* didn't nourish at all?

**archolewa** · May 22, 2020, 00:20

Originally posted by Nick

OK, sorry, I was completely missing that the big healing potions satiated more (don't ask me how). They can come down to 1. In fact, would anyone care if Healing and *Healing* didn't nourish at all?

I dont care.

**DavidMedley** · May 22, 2020, 02:38

Originally posted by Nick

OK, sorry, I was completely missing that the big healing potions satiated more (don't ask me how). They can come down to 1. In fact, would anyone care if Healing and *Healing* didn't nourish at all?

If healing potions don't nourish, what is the point of having a hunger meter at all? Force players to pay some insignificant money over time for food? There are better ways to make players pay "rent." Add a challenge to Iron Man mode? This is actually reasonable (I think; I have rarely tried that mode) but we could just disable hunger for non-Iron Man games then.

Scrolls can't be read while blind, devices have a fail rate, and you can get full if you drink too much potion. I say set all potions (not just healing) to 1% or 0.5% nourishment.

**Nick** · May 22, 2020, 05:22

Originally posted by DavidMedley

If healing potions don't nourish, what is the point of having a hunger meter at all? Force players to pay some insignificant money over time for food? There are better ways to make players pay "rent." Add a challenge to Iron Man mode? This is actually reasonable (I think; I have rarely tried that mode) but we could just disable hunger for non-Iron Man games then.

Scrolls can't be read while blind, devices have a fail rate, and you can get full if you drink too much potion. I say set all potions (not just healing) to 1% or 0.5% nourishment.

OK, I have a couple of reasons:

The Cure x Wounds potions still give 1% nourishment, and at least !CCW is (or was) sometimes used in the final fight to save bigger heals - when in real trouble, teleport M away, destruct and then sit quaffing !CCW until he returns. This puts a limit on that strategy. *Healing* (and arguably Healing), though, is necessary, and making the player jump through too many hoops to prepare seems silly.
Nourishment from potions can also be a positive (I have a story which I've probably told too often already about being hungry, a GCV containing Narya, and a stack of !Healing). For players short of food and not wanting to leave a level, I think the idea of having some potions which nourish (and there are a few others!) and some which don't has some potential for fun.

That said, I think there are three viable options here:

!*Healing* and !Healing both nourish 1%;
!*Healing* has no food value, !Healing does 1%;
Both !*Healing* and !Healing have no food value.

In terms of making interesting decisions, I actually kind of like option 2, but I'd like to hear feedback from people who fight Morgoth more often than me

.
Note too - !Life doesn't nourish.

**tangar** · May 22, 2020, 05:24

Originally posted by DavidMedley

If healing potions don't nourish, what is the point of having a hunger meter at all? Force players to pay some insignificant money over time for food? There are better ways to make players pay "rent." Add a challenge to Iron Man mode? This is actually reasonable (I think; I have rarely tried that mode) but we could just disable hunger for non-Iron Man games then.

It's possible to fix it even in normal, non-IM mode.. In my variant there is not possible to buy food from shops (only rarely at Black Market at _very_ high price); only find it in dungeon (it's well explained in terms of lore as dark curse to farmers which lowered their yield + monsters steal food -> bag of wheat cost more, than bag of gold). This makes gameplay totally different (and more interesting imho). Food is make sense then

But at endgame when you character quite powerful already and do not need to care much about mandane things - having satiation from healing potions is good thing. So it feels pretty balanced. But in some rare cases I've had problems with food even with satiation from potions as potions are also limited resource; so from time to time you could meet problem with the food at endgame and it brought very cool spirit to the gameplay - when you need to rush in clearing dungeon levels in attempt to find food there (or get the gold to buy it). Sometimes to survive from hunger you even have to drink heal potions. Really cool feeling - to find something ASAP to survive, adding zeitnot-style risk. One of my favorite moments in the game overall. Actually having problem with the food at endgame have some sense in terms of lore.. As Frodo, for example, had problems with it in the end...

**spara** · May 22, 2020, 06:11

Isn't there already a mechanism for bringing the hunger meter down? I mean Satisfy Hunger.

Reduce the satiation gained from Healing and Healing