Preparation for Angband 4.2.1: classes

[Nick]

OK, after some reflection I've decided to just give blackguards appalling stealth. We'll see how they play now.

[PowerWyrm]

Perma aggro worked... when we had the competition with Hobbit Rogue starting with the One Ring (it was also perma aggr + drain xp). But ofc you started with the One Ring

[tangar]

perma aggr + drain xp

OUCH!

To add there NO_TELEPORT and it will be a real paradise Actually I hope PWMA will have LIMITED_TELEPORT flag (so ?teleport will work as phase door, for example..) one day, so such trinity maybe even quite real for certain race

[Pete Mack]

right. As well as IMP_HP and AGGRO, throw in a few random permanent curses at the start. Steelskin would make it a real challenge since there's no temp resist for electricity.

OUCH!

To add there NO_TELEPORT and it will be a real paradise Actually I hope PWMA will have LIMITED_TELEPORT flag (so ?teleport will work as phase door, for example..) one day, so such trinity maybe even quite real for certain race

[wobbly]

Quick comment about druid & OP fox form. This is overpowering other forms. Why would I use bear if fox is almost as good in melee, costs 2 SPs, has better fail rates & is faster moving?

[DavidMedley]

[*]Permanent aggravation;

I'm not sure what the thematic justification is for this, but I don't agree with those who say it's unworkable. Or rather, I don't agree that a form of permanent aggravation that is quite a bit different from the existing item flag is unworkable. For example you could reduce the range all the way down to 5 squares. Or you could combine it with fear generation (tho that would take a lot of difficult balancing) so that sometimes they wake up and attack you but sometimes they wake up and run away. The latter would be equivalent to stealth.

[DavidMedley]

Hmm, in fact if you only aggroed monsters that were fearable that might be pretty awesome. "Fear Aura" that always wakes fearable monsters within range and sometimes makes them flee.

[DavidMedley]

Or maybe a rage aura, like Nick is trying to do with the Taunt spell. Kinda like if your character is always singing Song of Challenge in Sil. I think it could still work only on enemies susceptible to fear.

[Anarchic Fox]

Thank you so much Nick! I've had a blast playing the druid. The only problem I remember is that I never did figure out what Pukelman form was for.

I won't mind when the fox gets nerfed. It was great fun to play the furry death balls, but it will also be fun to play them as something balanced. :P

[Hounded]

I loved Pukelman for the poison immunity (and others). I think of it as "Tank" form.

Fox: Paratrooper Form
Eagle: Scout Form
Pukelman: Tank Form

It wasn't until Bear that I started to feel it didn't have it's own niche so much.

[Anarchic Fox]

Thanks! I got lucky and found poison resistance early, so perhaps that's why I didn't appreciate it.

[Nick]

Quick comment about druid & OP fox form. This is overpowering other forms. Why would I use bear if fox is almost as good in melee, costs 2 SPs, has better fail rates & is faster moving?

Currently bear is typically about 30% better than fox in melee. Main options seem to be

1. Leave it as is, as 30% is really quite a bit
2. Change fox from 2 extra blows to 1
3. Change bear from 1 extra blow to 2

Opinions?

I should mention, too - DavidMedley and I are engaged in a significant revamp of the blackguard (where he does all the work and then I criticise him), so we'll get that out before too long for testing.

[Derakon]

How obvious is that 30% improvement? It may be that fox looks better than bear using the stats that are obvious to the player. Sorry, I haven't played any druids yet so I don't actually know; this is speculation.

[DavidMedley]

[*]Change fox from 2 extra blows to 1
Opinions?

Fox was so freaking good that I'd start here. Doesn't seem like it should be a dominant melee form.

[Voovus]

I've played a few melee-oriented druids. I don't think the Fox is OP (v4.1.3). It does outdo the other druid shapes, but I'd argue that's because the others are too weak or too niche.

The bear usually does a little bit more damage than the fox. However:
- the Con bonus is very minor, as your health doesn't increase when you shapeshift into a bear; if the bear had +10Con, I can imagine running round as a bear so as not to have to shapeshift into the form. This would be useless with maxed out Con, though.
- the Stealth penalty is massive compared to the fox, especially when taking the movement speed into account.
- the bear seems weaker than a classical fighter character, while bearing (no pun intented) the no-item-use penalty.
- Bear Form appears ridiculously late in the game (clvl 40 - some of us like to be done with M by then!). If this is supposed to be the druid's melee form, it ought to appear much earlier, like clvl 20. At the moment, there's no option but to use Fox as the melee form for most of the game. Thematically, let me also note that Angband's Beorn is very much not a level 40 druid.

Short version: Change bear from 1 extra blow to 2 and make available earlier.