Preparation for Angband 4.2.1: classes

[Anarchic Fox]

Thank you so much Nick! I've had a blast playing the druid. The only problem I remember is that I never did figure out what Pukelman form was for.

I won't mind when the fox gets nerfed. It was great fun to play the furry death balls, but it will also be fun to play them as something balanced. :P

[DavidMedley]

Or maybe a rage aura, like Nick is trying to do with the Taunt spell. Kinda like if your character is always singing Song of Challenge in Sil. I think it could still work only on enemies susceptible to fear.

[DavidMedley]

Hmm, in fact if you only aggroed monsters that were fearable that might be pretty awesome. "Fear Aura" that always wakes fearable monsters within range and sometimes makes them flee.

[DavidMedley]

[*]Permanent aggravation;

I'm not sure what the thematic justification is for this, but I don't agree with those who say it's unworkable. Or rather, I don't agree that a form of permanent aggravation that is quite a bit different from the existing item flag is unworkable. For example you could reduce the range all the way down to 5 squares. Or you could combine it with fear generation (tho that would take a lot of difficult balancing) so that sometimes they wake up and attack you but sometimes they wake up and run away. The latter would be equivalent to stealth.

[wobbly]

Quick comment about druid & OP fox form. This is overpowering other forms. Why would I use bear if fox is almost as good in melee, costs 2 SPs, has better fail rates & is faster moving?

[Pete Mack]

right. As well as IMP_HP and AGGRO, throw in a few random permanent curses at the start. Steelskin would make it a real challenge since there's no temp resist for electricity.

OUCH!

To add there NO_TELEPORT and it will be a real paradise Actually I hope PWMA will have LIMITED_TELEPORT flag (so ?teleport will work as phase door, for example..) one day, so such trinity maybe even quite real for certain race

[tangar]

perma aggr + drain xp

OUCH!

To add there NO_TELEPORT and it will be a real paradise Actually I hope PWMA will have LIMITED_TELEPORT flag (so ?teleport will work as phase door, for example..) one day, so such trinity maybe even quite real for certain race

[PowerWyrm]

Perma aggro worked... when we had the competition with Hobbit Rogue starting with the One Ring (it was also perma aggr + drain xp). But ofc you started with the One Ring

[Nick]

OK, after some reflection I've decided to just give blackguards appalling stealth. We'll see how they play now.

[tangar]

So I have come up with some ideas for a pretty big revamp of the class...[*]Permanent aggravation;

Permanent aggro and impaired HP is a nightmarish combo. No-one will want to play that.

Some time ago I've added perma-aggo 'Balrog' race in my variant (Tangaria), and it appeared to be quite good solution. One player made it pretty fast to lvl 50 with it (no win though) and had a lot of fun. It was before recent Tangaria's exp revamp; this race had 400% exp penalty and quite nice bonuses Now I'm rebalancing it to 125% exp (as all races..)

My intuition is that having aggro and impaired HP regen at level 1 will make the early game awful

It's quite alright to play 1-49 lvls with perma aggro; main problem is endgame actually.

[archolewa]

I'm a little afraid the following comment might somehow be useless and unhelpful, but I'm a little confused why blackguard gets splash damage but not warriors. Seems like something warriors should get. I guess I'm a little confused in general about blackguard. Aren't warriors the class that indiscriminately bashes everything into submission? At least that's how I play Warrior.

Well, warriors are already the undisputed kings of single-target damage, so they have their niche. So perhaps it makes sense to let one of the other two melee heavy characters be capable of doing area of effect in melee.

Also, I missed the fact that blackguards receive a damage reduction. Does this apply to *all* damage? Even mana storm and getting crushed by the ceiling? Because yeah, that could be ridiculous and/or awesome. I find it amusing that in the near future, the two hybrid warriors could steamroll Morgoth in two opposite ways: paladins by cutting Morgoth off from his summons, and Blackguard by letting Morgoth's summons make him all but invincible.

[Grotug]

I'm a little afraid the following comment might somehow be useless and unhelpful, but I'm a little confused why blackguard gets splash damage but not warriors. Seems like something warriors should get. I guess I'm a little confused in general about blackguard. Aren't warriors the class that indiscriminately bashes everything into submission? At least that's how I play Warrior. I have not really tried out Blackguard much due to the general complaints about it being difficult early on. I like HT Warrior because it's easy to get your foot in the door so-to-speak without being overpowered by the end.

[Nick]

One thing to keep in mind is action economy. Having lots of moves (which the enemy does in thid case) is so incredibly powerful.

To counteract this, I think you need to give the blackguard improved action economy, not improved health regen (which will be useless in combat unless its truly astronomical). So maybe they get (accelerating!) speed buffs.

"Sure Saruman go ahead and summon hordes of allies, now excuse me while I triple move you."

Alternatively give the blackguards triggers. Like retaliation when an enemy attacks you, or a spell that basically leap frogs your turn to right now when your health drops to 25%, or maybe teleports you to a spot you designated ahead of time.

I considered both giving some sort of speed bonus and giving ability to counter-attack when hit as possibilities - and there may well be others. For what I've implemented, I think rather than the regen it's actually the percentage damage reduction which is going to be the real winner; currently I've left it uncapped, which may be overdoing things a little

[archolewa]

I applaud your ambition with blackguard. If you can pull off an effective class that becomes effective by breaking all the rules of good Angband play, I will be impressed. One thing to keep in mind is action economy. Having lots of moves (which the enemy does in thid case) is so incredibly powerful.

To counteract this, I think you need to give the blackguard improved action economy, not improved health regen (which will be useless in combat unless its truly astronomical). So maybe they get (accelerating!) speed buffs.

"Sure Saruman go ahead and summon hordes of allies, now excuse me while I triple move you."

Alternatively give the blackguards triggers. Like retaliation when an enemy attacks you, or a spell that basically leap frogs your turn to right now when your health drops to 25%, or maybe teleports you to a spot you designated ahead of time.

[Diego Gonzalez]

Another thing... The command spell, I couldn't figure out how to use it to my advantage. Someone has tips about this spell?