Angband 4.2.0

[Sky]

when it says Brands, it actually means any multiplier, right? So Extra Blow would be classed as a brand.

[DavidMedley]

not so much that I can declare a priori that it's useless.

Well, I'm overstating it a bit in context of Protection from Evil being called "pretty much useless." I'd take PfE for sure over Smite Evil.

[Derakon]

when it says Brands, it actually means any multiplier, right? So Extra Blow would be classed as a brand.

No. Brands and slays multiply the damage dealt by your damage dice on a per-blow basis when used against a monster that is susceptible to the brand/slay. You only get one multiplier this way; whichever one deals the most damage. So for example, a Dracolich (evil undead dragon) hit by a weapon with Slay Evil (x2), Slay Undead (x3), a firebrand (x3), and *Slay* Dragon (x5) would get an x5 multiplier.

Extra Blows just straight-up make you attack more, and therefore stack with brands/slays.

[wobbly]

While we're on Paladin, what about Smite Evil? I may not understand it completely, but it seems completely useless. Get it in 4th holy book (Paly's 3rd) and can cast at CL 25 for 20 mana. Gives your weapon a temporary x2 mult against evil, right? But this is not cumulative with any brands? I can't picture a Paladin ever having a weapon at CL 25 that doesn't x2 already. My CL31 Paladin has Prot from Evil on *always* but never Smite Evil.

If I'm under-selling it, let me know.

Aglarang. Glaive of Pain. There are others.

[DavidMedley]

Aglarang. Glaive of Pain. There are others.

Granted. Am I alone, then, in thinking PfE has a lot more utility than Smite Evil?

[Pete Mack]

No. Smite Evil is effectively an off-weapon brand. That is potentially massively powerful, as wobbly points out if you find Aglarang or especially Glaive, as the latter has huge base damage. But the usefulness doesn't stop there--a MoD of Gondolin (eg) becomes an endgame weapon, not just an EXP builder for HE mages.

[Sky]

No. Brands and slays multiply the damage dealt by your damage dice on a per-blow basis when used against a monster that is susceptible to the brand/slay. You only get one multiplier this way; whichever one deals the most damage. So for example, a Dracolich (evil undead dragon) hit by a weapon with Slay Evil (x2), Slay Undead (x3), a firebrand (x3), and *Slay* Dragon (x5) would get an x5 multiplier.

Extra Blows just straight-up make you attack more, and therefore stack with brands/slays.

what i mean is, something similar to the branding spells that you'd get from Tenseners.
You can brand normal ammo, but unbranded ammo Of Wounding already has a flag so even though it is "unbranded" (so, not Of Fire) it cannot be branded.
Likewise the priest had a spell IIRC that allows you to brand an otherwise normal weapon, but cannot brand anything which already has a ego flag.

Basically, you'd think that you could brand a Mace Of Disruption, but not a Mace Of Disruption Of Gondolin, or Of Extra Attacks - because obviously you'd immediately think of that, a 5d8 +20 Slay Evil that ALSO gets +2 attacks would be everyone's endgame weapon.

Obviously this would still make The Glaive Of Pain an extremely powerful weapon .. 18D30 +30 IIRC ? Isn't it 9D30 +30 base without slays?



FYI this is rare, but not impossible with randarts; artifacts that add Slays - and extra blows - do exist in randart sets, but they are rare, and you'd have to be lucky enough to both get a Slay Evil, AND get a big dice weapon in the set (which would never be as excessive as GoP), and then drop in an extra blows item as well.

(i recently had a randart set that had a 11d9 weapon with slay evil AND +2 blows, and a helmet with +2 blows, and a RoP with +17 Spd, and another with +13 damage. unfortunately i died to a f* spirit naga, but that would have easily been over 1k dps to morgoth) .

[Derakon]

The Glaive of Pain is 9d6, not 9d30. You're only off by a factor of 5. But I believe the paladin's branding spells are temporary, not permanent, and additionally do not care what other attributes the weapon currently has.

How do you die to a Spirit Naga when you're that powerful?

[wobbly]

Technically the priest spell never "brands" the weapon. It's a timed effect & if you swap weapons while its in effect it will still work.

[Gwarl]

I assume he's talking about the old priest spell? elemental branding? I definitely once made a mace of disruption of fire with it and stashed it at home where it remained a mace of disruption of fire.

[DavidMedley]

the paladin's branding spells are temporary, not permanent, and additionally do not care what other attributes the weapon currently has.

Correct. It's a timed effect like Blessing. It does help your bows, tho, which is useful.

[Pete Mack]

Yep, an off-weapon slay. That is veey valuable, unless you get lucky with a top-end slay evil artifact. As another poster pointed out, a +2 attacks MoD will be ridiculously powerful with this spell active, doing an extra ~150 damage per turn.

[DavidMedley]

Off-weapon means ranged weapon?

[DavidMedley]

Totally off-topic: Do shops not recharge TO wands? Is that documented anywhere?

[DavidMedley]

And having Smite Evil cast won't help if your arrows have brands that do more damage, right? Maybe at CL50 it'll make some sense, but at CL33 Smite Evil is terrible.