Preparing for 4.2 release

[Nick]

There are now new builds on the nightlies page and angband.live with the following changes:

• The 'p' option in targeting works again (thanks Ingwe)
• New experimental birth option - to-dam, instead of a flat damage boost, adds a percentage (5% per +1) of the damage dice. Some of you will realise that this is the central feature of O-combat, and I was kind of curious to see how it looks if just that change is made. The short answer is it's a bit broken, but not nearly as much as I expected. The effects are roughly:
  • Damage from small dice weapons is significantly reduced
  • Regular damage is somewhat reduced across the board
  • Damage from slays and brands is generally increased
  
  So it might be an interesting option for some, and it also makes a discussion point for potential future combat system changes
• Added a THROWING flag for weapons which are intended to be thrown. The existing weapons to get it are daggers and spears, and I have also added throwing axes and throwing hammers. The effect of the flag is that the damage of the thrown weapon now includes the player's innate to-dam value (so from =Damage, etc) as well as the weapon's.
• Added a new type of shield, Knight's Shield (heavier and better for bashing)
• Smallish rework of artifacts:
  • The 'thancs have all been nerfed from 2d4 to 1d4
  • Wormtongue has the speed bonus replaced by a moves bonus, and acquires trap immunity
  • Belegennon has its DEX and stealth bonuses replaced by damage reduction (think Frodo being stabbed by the orc captain in Moria)
  • New artifact, Knight's Shield of Eärendil, and all the artifact shields got the correct damage dice

These are the last gameplay changes (as distinct from bugfixes) that I intend before releasing version 4.2.0. The number of bugs on my list has now dropped below 30; I would appreciate any feedback on this list (things I've missed, things that are incorrect or no longer a problem).

So this is now a call for complaints. What's wrong with the current state of the development version? In particular, I am interested in feedback on the new classes and the changes to the monster list, but also on other things that have changed since 4.1.3 like XP penalties (both for races and classes), artifact changes, randarts, lighting. Feel free also to re-litigate changes made from 4.0 to 4.1, or suggest lost features from even older versions or new stuff.

Lack of comment will be taken as approval

[Sphara]

I'm generally very pleased with the new changes but I got few complaints now that you asked for them:

Packs of Old Forest Trees don't add anything to the game. Other than sometimes blocking a corridor. I just ignore them every time I see one.

Another tree complaint is about Hasty Ent. If you wake one up, you basically want to lure it somewhere and destruct the area, because it finds you anywhere and digs walls. I'm not particularly fond of those Huorns either. Mostly because they start to appear bit too early.

Wiruin is the kind of unique you just want leave it where you spotted it and never come back. Or destruct it. This, if you can detect it before it gets you.

For flavors I don't tend to complain but "Etten"?

Staff of Starlight and Wand of Door Destruction I never use, even though they are supposed to be beneficial. Buff em or ditch em.

Also, the game has too many fights against canines. Wolves and wargs are everywhere and then come the Z's. I sometimes even let myself to get wounded under 50% HP, just so I can get the whole wolf pack to follow me in the corridor without pelting them moving on and off from doorway (EDIT: this, of course, is a very old issue. Not the new problem).

These came in my mind first. Some changes are excellent, like huge buffs on mature dragons, wraith buffs. Nazguls being moved much deeper is kinda good but Uvatha wasn't nowhere near as dangerous as other dlvl70 uniques.

[Thraalbee]

+1 to this!

... For flavors I don't tend to complain but "Etten"? ...

[Voovus]

What's wrong with the current state of the development version? In particular, I am interested in feedback on the new classes

I thought you were planning at some point to start individual threads for the various character classes to do this systematically. (Maybe I'm just hallucinating... or someone has snuck in a mushroom of confusion into my rations. Amnesia - that's it! )

[mrfy]

I've liked most of the changes to classes and monsters, except for the big nerf to Rangers. It's bad enough that I stopped playing that class completely, but it did get me to try out the other new classes.

The tree monsters don't bother me as much, I think they add a neat bit of Tolkien flavor. Multi-headed hydrae seem a bit too much still. If I detect a pit, I'll avoid it at all costs, I didn't use to do that. And gorgons summoning 8-headed Hydra can get out of hand quickly.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Ooh, I will enjoy trying the new combat damage thing. I hope weird, big damage dice weapons drop like they do in O and FA, like 2d17 lances. I can't remember much about my recent playthrough of Vanilla... sometime, last year?

Complaints?
I still think lanterns should be in the general store.

Carry on!

[Nick]

I've liked most of the changes to classes and monsters, except for the big nerf to Rangers. It's bad enough that I stopped playing that class completely, but it did get me to try out the other new classes.

What is it about rangers - the reduction from 2 to 1 extra shot, or the change in their spells, or both?

Multi-headed hydrae seem a bit too much still. If I detect a pit, I'll avoid it at all costs, I didn't use to do that. And gorgons summoning 8-headed Hydra can get out of hand quickly.

Yes, I might need to nerf both of those a bit more.

[Nick]

New builds up on the nightlies page and angband.live to fix a bug that was stopping randart files from loading.

[mrfy]

What is it about rangers - the reduction from 2 to 1 extra shot, or the change in their spells, or both?

Extra shots IMO.

[Pete Mack]

Both. Losing resistance and haste is huge. (Same for rogues.) Teleport other is still plenty common, so less of a loss. The supply of resistance potions--along with other utility scrolls and potions-- is way down too, now that Temple and Alchemist are combined.

Finding Scarabtrices was huge in previous releases. The new spell books don't come close to replacing it.

[Thraalbee]

Also, at least a while ago, ironman ranger was a disaster. No fun. All the nerfs plus you have to carry three shooters to get enough ammo. And minimal incentive to use a bow. A create arrow spell would help a lot and maybe additional to-hit bonus for bows only.

[gglibertine]

I really like almost all of the new features so far. I think the new classes have really tightened up and are working well (though I'm inclined to agree with those who think Necromancers and Rangers are still a little underpowered).

Playing with randarts is even more fun than it was before. I actually like the trees, they require a bit of tactics to tackle (much like nexus quylthugs -- yes, they're annoying, but they're an interesting challenge) and make fire-related items much more worth hanging onto. My gameplay style is definitely changing to use items that I previously didn't bother with because they weren't useful enough. It's cool to have new uses for familiar objects that I never took notice of in earlier versions.

I agree with whoever said lanterns should be available in the General Store, though I'd be fine with them being relatively rare. Or maybe rings of light should sometimes turn up in the magic shop, or earlier in the dungeon? I'm also frustrated by how often there are no shooters available in the weaponsmith's.

Re: someone else's comment about Staves of Starlight, do they actually do more damage than a Staff of Light? If not, then I think they're completely pointless, but if they do significantly more damage they have value, especially for tackling orc or jelly pits.

Am I hallucinating or has dragon scale male become rarer? Also, I understand you've reduced drop rates for spellbooks @ can't use, but in my games with the build before this one, I was getting a LOT of prayer books, particularly Cleansing Power and one of the dungeon prayer books (at weirdly early dungeon levels), while playing a Rogue.

One random thing I've suggested before but thought I'd throw out there again anyway: I think it would be thematically appropriate for Kobolds to get, say, a +1 or +2 to tunneling given that they're meant to live in the underdark.

ETA another point: the behaviour of the Rogue spells Cure Poison and Resist Poison now seems inconsistent in light of the recent change to !RP to both cure and prevent poisoning (especially considering that the Heroism and Berserk Rage spells for other classes both cure and resist fear). I'm not sure this is really a problem (or whether it's already been discussed), but since they get Resist Poison right after they get Cure Poison anyway, maybe those two spells should be rolled together and a different spell added instead.

I'm not sure what other spell, but it occurs to me that something that could be super useful for Rogues would be a spell that temporarily enhances stealth in some way -- either by 'quieting' their footsteps or making them invisible/shadowy. Alternatively, some sort of 'backstab' spell might be useful -- phase door to target, make a sneak attack, and phase door away? Or would that be too powerful? I know the half-casters aren't meant to have attack spells but it does seem thematically appropriate. (It'd suit Blackguards as well.)

I don't know if this sort of thing has been suggested before because I don't follow the development forums too closely, but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks about it. I'm just spitballing, as is the way of my people.

[Nick]

Both. Losing resistance and haste is huge.

Rangers still get haste.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

[*]New experimental birth option - to-dam, instead of a flat damage boost, adds a percentage (5% per +1) of the damage dice. Some of you will realise that this is the central feature of O-combat, and I was kind of curious to see how it looks if just that change is made. The short answer is it's a bit broken, but not nearly as much as I expected. The effects are roughly:

• Damage from small dice weapons is significantly reduced
• Regular damage is somewhat reduced across the board
• Damage from slays and brands is generally increased

So it might be an interesting option for some, and it also makes a discussion point for potential future combat system changes

I'd say it's pretty severely broken. Here is an example with regard to a pretty great early launcher, and comparing some enchanted pebbles with a bog standard iron shot. The average damage/round calculations are definitely wonky. Have the magics all been excluded?!

@ STR 18/10 DEX 18/50
Sling of Accuracy (x2) (+19,+6)
Rounded Pebble (1d2) (+5,+4) Average damage/round 4.4
Iron Shot (1d4) (+0, +0) Average damage/round 6.4

[Nick]

I'd say it's pretty severely broken. Here is an example with regard to a pretty great early launcher, and comparing some enchanted pebbles with a bog standard iron shot. The average damage/round calculations are definitely wonky. Have the magics all been excluded?!

@ STR 18/10 DEX 18/50
Sling of Accuracy (x2) (+19,+6)
Rounded Pebble (1d2) (+5,+4) Average damage/round 4.4
Iron Shot (1d4) (+0, +0) Average damage/round 6.4

This looks reasonable (well, expected) - with that sling you're getting (1d2 + 50%) x 2 for the pebbles, and (1d4 + 30%) x 2 for the shot.