Class/magic feature branch

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Pete Mack
    Prophet
    • Apr 2007
    • 6883

    Philip--yeah, that can be boring. But it can be exciting too. Say, if you have 370HP and 3 base speed at DL 70+

    Comment

    • Derakon
      Prophet
      • Dec 2009
      • 9022

      This is the kind of thing that is usually solved by just going and winning already. Or alternately, by playing ironman, so you can't scum infinitely for vaults to loot.

      That said, it might be worth removing Staves of Banishment, or making them impossible to recharge, since they're currently the only way non-mages can (theoretically) get access to unlimited banishment. I've always viewed the vault-banishing thing as something that you're either spending rare consumables on, or only able to do because you're a high-level mage who's already found the last spellbook.

      Comment

      • Nick
        Vanilla maintainer
        • Apr 2007
        • 9634

        Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
        Don't know that I like the general philosophy underlying many of the feature branch changes, now that I've done a paladin and rogue runthrough. Relying more on devices and consumables is all well and good, but it just means playing more like a warrior. And I think the distribution of some of those consumables/devices needs to be looked at. (E.g., stone to mud seems very rare deep in the dungeon.) The inability to Banish or Mass Banish in vaults or special rooms (often difficult to identify, resulting in wasted scrolls, charges, or mana) is what, supposed to "balance" the game? It just makes the game more tedious.
        Thanks for the testing and the feedback.

        I see your point about using devices and consumables. The aim here is to make the magic realms feel a bit more different from each other - it seems to me that in current V there are a bunch of spells that everyone gets for basically "he gets it why can't I" reasons. It's likely that I've overdone this a bit. And drop rates certainly need to be looked at.

        There has certainly been a lot of whingeing about the banishment issue (some of it not from you ); how does confining the banish ban to greater vaults sound?. I think there are actually a few issues with vaults in 4.1 - there are still too many occurring, and Gwarl has kindly pointed out to me how much more sensibly they are handled in his variant. So I probably want to do a bit of a rework anyway.
        One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
        In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

        Comment

        • Ingwe Ingweron
          Veteran
          • Jan 2009
          • 2129

          Originally posted by Derakon
          I've always viewed the vault-banishing thing as something that you're either spending rare consumables on, or only able to do because you're a high-level mage who's already found the last spellbook.
          I agree. Apart from the Morgoth fight, I don't use banishment, EXCEPT for what appears to be a very lucrative vault, and then only for getting rid of Q's, v's or Z's that are always awake and going to breath or summon or scream, waking everything up. Vaults are dangerous enough without the Q, v, and Z (sometimes a ,) to deal with, even though they are comparatively low-level monsters in their own right. If I wish to use a valuable resource to deal with those critters, I think I should be able to. And a mage, I see it as one of the compensations for the great difficulty in keeping the mage alive until that point.

          Not being able to tell an area is a special room that is banish immune was also a pain, resulting in wasted otherwise precious end-game items.

          And now, Morgoth must not be fought in a vault, because of his summons and the inability to get rid of them.
          “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
          ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

          Comment

          • Derakon
            Prophet
            • Dec 2009
            • 9022

            Originally posted by Nick
            There has certainly been a lot of whingeing about the banishment issue (some of it not from you ); how does confining the banish ban to greater vaults sound?
            Functionally identical to confining it to vaults, since the vast majority of vaults where you'd want to [ab]use banishment are greater vaults.

            What is the goal of preventing banishment in vaults?

            Comment

            • emulord
              Adept
              • Oct 2009
              • 207

              If vaults had special floor tiles that mean "unbanishable square" I feel like it would be more obvious. Then we could create vaults that are selectively banishable too.

              Comment

              • Nick
                Vanilla maintainer
                • Apr 2007
                • 9634

                Originally posted by Derakon
                Functionally identical to confining it to vaults, since the vast majority of vaults where you'd want to [ab]use banishment are greater vaults.
                My point here was that a lot of the complaints are about not being able to tell what's a vault, and it does seem a bit silly to forbid banishment from interesting rooms.

                Originally posted by Derakon
                What is the goal of preventing banishment in vaults?
                It always felt wrong to me that you could do it, but it looks like the weight of opinion is against me. I will revert for now.
                One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                Comment

                • Thraalbee
                  Knight
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 707

                  Originally posted by Nick
                  ... It always felt wrong to me that you could do it, but it looks like the weight of opinion is against me. I will revert for now.
                  I'm with Nick on this. But most people seem not to be, and it's not like we have to use it just because it is there.

                  Comment

                  • fizzix
                    Prophet
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 3025

                    Just to frame the "no banishment in vaults" discussion. It used to be the case that artifacts were not affected by *Destruction*. So a common technique, when the only gear you really needed was artifacts, was to go to a vault and destruct all the monsters and uniques. and then claim the one or two artifacts. When we changed the behavior of *destruction* to also remove artifacts there were a lot of complaints that are eerily similar to the current complaints about banishment.

                    Personally I think a lot of things are conspiring here. I'm going to write down some of my thoughts on this, but maybe it's useful to put them in a different thread, since it's not particularly related to the feature branch.

                    Comment

                    • Sky
                      Veteran
                      • Oct 2016
                      • 2321

                      remember when *destruct did not affect artifacts?

                      i used to use it to sort them out from the rubbish.
                      "i can take this dracolich"

                      Comment

                      • Sky
                        Veteran
                        • Oct 2016
                        • 2321

                        so, how's the blackguard progressing? can someone tell me the name of the latest build with it in it?
                        "i can take this dracolich"

                        Comment

                        • Nick
                          Vanilla maintainer
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 9634

                          Originally posted by Sky
                          so, how's the blackguard progressing? can someone tell me the name of the latest build with it in it?
                          There haven't been any new builds for a while (I've taken a break to play the competition), so the last one I told you is the latest, I believe.
                          One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                          In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                          Comment

                          • Sky
                            Veteran
                            • Oct 2016
                            • 2321

                            righty-oh.
                            "i can take this dracolich"

                            Comment

                            • Sky
                              Veteran
                              • Oct 2016
                              • 2321

                              ermm.. still .. nothing?

                              i want to play blackguard, but those slowdowns made it impossible to play. i mean impossible.
                              "i can take this dracolich"

                              Comment

                              • Nick
                                Vanilla maintainer
                                • Apr 2007
                                • 9634

                                Originally posted by Sky
                                ermm.. still .. nothing?

                                i want to play blackguard, but those slowdowns made it impossible to play. i mean impossible.
                                I'm afraid not. I'm doing some work on the master branch at the moment (when I'm doing anything...) to attempt to fix some crash/broken savefile bugs; there's also the rebalance of traps etc talked about on the "New Angband" thread. Once that's done I'll be getting back to the feature branch.
                                One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                                In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                😀
                                😂
                                🥰
                                😘
                                🤢
                                😎
                                😞
                                😡
                                👍
                                👎