Persistent levels

[whartung]

Also wondering what happens when a floor is completely cleared? Will no monsters ever spawn there again, or do some still spawn randomly?

I don't know, but I'm going to hazard a guess that the existing monsters aren't mating, so respawns would happen on an empty level.

The monsters mating would bring a very twisted variant in to the game...

[DavidMedley]

White Worms and I both breed explosively

[swim]

Thanks! =p

I think I'm going to go ahead and start a run with persistent levels and selling on. Not sure why but this seems to be the most appealing to me. Sort of Diablo-esque I suppose

[bughunter]

I don't know, but I'm going to hazard a guess that the existing monsters aren't mating, so respawns would happen on an empty level.

The monsters mating would bring a very twisted variant in to the game...

Bangband.

(so very sorry)

[swim]

Bangband.

(so very sorry)

Rule 34 xD

[Nick]

I had a read through this thread and I was just wondering if all the changes you mentioned regarding monster spawning and such have since been implemented? I looked through the change logs of versions since that feature was introduced and while they mention big fixes they don't specifically mention fixes to the persistent level feature.

Also wondering what happens when a floor is completely cleared? Will no monsters ever spawn there again, or do some still spawn randomly?

Just getting slightly back on track...

No, none of the changes to monster spawning got implemented - so let us know how you get on. And monsters do spawn randomly while you're on a level, so that will still happen (but currently only on the level you're on).

[Sky]

monsters will continue to randomly spawn (in some hilarious instances, very quickly).
I do not know if this applies to Uniques as well, but i would think yes. Save those Staves of Summoning !

[swim]

Just getting slightly back on track...

No, none of the changes to monster spawning got implemented - so let us know how you get on. And monsters do spawn randomly while you're on a level, so that will still happen (but currently only on the level you're on).

Thanks! I suppose I'll give it a try anyways Though since it's my first real run I don't think I'll have any insight as to how it plays compared to the regular way.

Are there any plans to implement these at all in the future?

" - Have monsters on saved levels heal over time
- Make uniques and artifacts able to be generated on new levels (or by newly spawning on the current level) regardless of if they exist on a saved level; the previous one would just be deleted from where it was.
"

[swim]

I have a suggestion,

It would be cool if there could be an option for levels to persist only as long as you remain in the dungeon. For example, you could descend down a few levels, then ascend quickly retracing your steps as the map is already filled out. But once you get to the town the dungeon would then reset everything.

For me this would solve a couple of concerns. I would get the enhanced feeling of immersion in the game knowing that there is some persistence, being able to revisit skipped areas on my way out and things like that. But I would also have the option to grind out early levels if I wanted to by simply returning to the surface.

[whartung]

" - Have monsters on saved levels heal over time
- Make uniques and artifacts able to be generated on new levels (or by newly spawning on the current level) regardless of if they exist on a saved level; the previous one would just be deleted from where it was.
"

Of course the problem here is that as you dive, you're building up a longer and longer list of monsters that need to be "maintained" and worked through each time you move (or even every X turns).

Imagine the trivial case of a fast dive, lots of "fresh" levels with lots of monsters that weren't even touched, vs a bunch of mostly empty levels because most of the monsters were cleared out. Plus, those levels will be growing (perhaps) to some capacity as new monsters spawned.

Finally, the "worst case" scenario is that you're down there dodging bullets and death with Morgoth, while the game is checking if a yeek needs to be healed or that there simply needs to be more yeeks on Level 1. An area that you'll probably never go back to, much less find any challenge in.

Now, you could do something like only "manage" the levels +/-5 levels of where you are, things like that to limit the processing.

But, the basic point is that it can be a lot of work to do, and it has to happen "often".

[backwardsEric]

Are there any plans to implement these at all in the future?

" - Have monsters on saved levels heal over time
- Make uniques and artifacts able to be generated on new levels (or by newly spawning on the current level) regardless of if they exist on a saved level; the previous one would just be deleted from where it was.
"

The first is likely much easier to implement (record the time when the player leaves a level; upon return to the level, fast forward the creatures to the current time to handle healing and any timed effects). The second would be harder. Either probably requires new information stored in the save file. So, putting them in the game would bump the minor version number (i.e. 4.2 to 4.3) and break compatibility with old saved files.

It would be cool if there could be an option for levels to persist only as long as you remain in the dungeon. For example, you could descend down a few levels, then ascend quickly retracing your steps as the map is already filled out. But once you get to the town the dungeon would then reset everything.

Persistent levels in Hengband work that way (returning to the surface, either by the stairs or by recall, forgets the stored levels). It's possible that the variants that split off from Hengband (Poschengband, Composband, Frogcomposband, and Oposband) retain that behavior.

[swim]

Persistent levels in Hengband work that way (returning to the surface, either by the stairs or by recall, forgets the stored levels). It's possible that the variants that split off from Hengband (Poschengband, Composband, Frogcomposband, and Oposband) retain that behavior.

Cool I will have a closer look at some of those. Though I have really looked at them all on the surface and felt more at home with Angband for now. I would be curious if the dev's here would be receptive to the idea of adding it as an optional feature here. Though I would of course understand if that's not a direction they want to bother going in.

[Nick]

The first is likely much easier to implement (record the time when the player leaves a level; upon return to the level, fast forward the creatures to the current time to handle healing and any timed effects). The second would be harder. Either probably requires new information stored in the save file. So, putting them in the game would bump the minor version number (i.e. 4.2 to 4.3) and break compatibility with old saved files.

Actually, I think the first could be done fairly easily, because the savefile does record the entire level plus the game turn when it was stored. The second could technically be done too, but would slow down level generation horribly - before placing any artifact or unique, the game would have to trawl through every stored level to see if it needed to be deleted from there.

[Pete Mack]

Wow. A rule 34 cite! Gotta be a first. Thankfully I have never once seen Godwin here, though.

[bughunter]

Wow. A rule 34 cite! Gotta be a first. Thankfully I have never once seen Godwin here, though.

You did nazi that, ever?

The second could technically be done too, but would slow down level generation horribly - before placing any artifact or unique, the game would have to trawl through every stored level to see if it needed to be deleted from there.

Couldn't one instead keep a list of artifacts and uniques, with spawn status, last spawn level, level coordinates if previously spawned, a seen by character flag, and an lost/killed by character flag? At least it would be a fixed size.

Maintaining it would still cause some delays at new level generation, and when summoning monsters are active.

Not sure I think this kind of persistence is a good idea, mind you, but nor am I convinced it should be dismissed as impractical without applying a little bit more analysis. You guys are pretty darn smart...