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  • Derakon
    Prophet
    • Dec 2009
    • 9022

    #16
    Originally posted by Sky
    if V is so damn easy, where's my legit wins?
    We have given you plenty of advice, but you insist on playing at a glacial pace that means your odds of making a mistake before reaching the endgame approach 99%. If you want to win without cheating, you are going to have to change your playstyle drastically; it is simply abysmally-suited to achieving success. Plenty of other new players have ramped up on the game in its current state and learned to win -- just look at Grotug, for example.

    Hounds breathe, which is either a ball spell equivalent or a conic breath that hits their allies; either way, it's not an arrow. Show me orc archers that are shooting at you despite their allies physically blocking them and I'll believe you on that front, but I personally haven't seen it in ages. Indeed, even in the 2.8.x days, orcs and the like couldn't shoot through their allies; they'd just actually shoot their allies instead, so e.g. a pack of Novice Rangers (or Black Orcs, or Uruks) could easily be whittled down by just lining them up in a corridor and letting them shoot each other.

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    • Carnivean
      Knight
      • Sep 2013
      • 527

      #17
      Originally posted by Sky
      Orcs and zephyrs have no problem shooting through their teammates
      Bands work together in real life, so shooting past your team mate is easily done, but shooting into a band to target high priority targets is not. Most bands would be actively protecting the high priority targets. Angband dumbs that down, but it has to.

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      • Pete Mack
        Prophet
        • Apr 2007
        • 6883

        #18
        @sky--
        Do dive faster. The game is more fun that way, never mind that it's easier.

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        • Philip
          Knight
          • Jul 2009
          • 909

          #19
          As the others have mentioned, the best way to avoid losing CL40 characters to noob mistakes is to lose CL20 characters to them. The key to diving is that when you feel comfortable at a certain dungeon level, you should clearly go deeper. If you feel uncomfortable, then you should clearly go deeper, because it can hardly get any worse.

          I recommend putting your characters on the Ladder. It's where I got a lot of the advice that allowed me to win the game for the first time.

          The game isn't particularly hard, you just need the right mentality. Read Tales of the Bold Rogue some time, it's full of revelations. Some of which are common knowledge these days, of course, but what's probably the most important is the mentality.

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          • Grotug
            Veteran
            • Nov 2013
            • 1637

            #20
            I'm very confused. What are ?create traps used for? Thought this was similar in usefulness to ?confusion or ?darkness....
            Last edited by Grotug; December 23, 2016, 23:25.
            Beginner's Guide to Angband 4.2.3 Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9c9e2wMngM

            Detailed account of my Ironman win here.

            "My guess is that Grip and Fang have many more kills than Gothmog and Lungorthin." --Fizzix

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            • PowerDiver
              Prophet
              • Mar 2008
              • 2820

              #21
              Originally posted by Grotug
              I'm very confused. What are ?create traps used for? Thought this was similar in usefulness to ?confusion or ?darkness....
              There is a decent chance to create a trap door, which allows you a way off of the level. That can be useful in any game.

              Read it with 8 free squares around you to maximize your chances. I don't know the current rules, but in the old versions even hidden squelched items blocked placement of a new trap.

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              • Grotug
                Veteran
                • Nov 2013
                • 1637

                #22
                Heh, I thought maybe that's what it was for, but that seems a bit overkill when the person had 9 ?telelevels.

                I haven't been able to find many super fast dives dumped on the ladder; is this Tales of a Bold Rogue on the ladder?
                Beginner's Guide to Angband 4.2.3 Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9c9e2wMngM

                Detailed account of my Ironman win here.

                "My guess is that Grip and Fang have many more kills than Gothmog and Lungorthin." --Fizzix

                Comment

                • Philip
                  Knight
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 909

                  #23
                  The person (Eddie Grove) is PowerDiver. If I am not mistaken, this character is on the ladder, at http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=7807.

                  As for Teleport Level, it's pretty important to conserve, since you can only find them in the dungeon and in the Black Market, and in the dungeon you don't have stacks of the things. The only character in 3.0.x who can afford not to conserve Teleport Level is a Mage or Priest with the relevant spellbook. You end up using them a lot later on, usually in situations where failure is not an option.

                  Basically, unreliable ?CreateStairs is pretty nice to have.

                  Comment

                  • Sky
                    Veteran
                    • Oct 2016
                    • 2321

                    #24
                    There should be an option to force-activate a trap. Teleport and trapdoor are useful, and summon too if you are suicidal.
                    "i can take this dracolich"

                    Comment

                    • Adam
                      Adept
                      • Feb 2016
                      • 194

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Sky
                      There should be an option to force-activate a trap. Teleport and trapdoor are useful, and summon too if you are suicidal.
                      I think the 'W' (Walk into a trap) command is what you are looking for. You can use it to go to the next level if you are next to a trap door.

                      Comment

                      • PowerDiver
                        Prophet
                        • Mar 2008
                        • 2820

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Grotug
                        I haven't been able to find many super fast dives dumped on the ladder; is this Tales of a Bold Rogue on the ladder?
                        In the tales, I posted the dumps of each dungeon visit as I went. That's a lot more useful than a single winner post.

                        I occasionally post chars to the ladder. You could look thru by my name.



                        Some of the turncounts are high, but check the comments. You have to expect ironman egoless to take a while. I impressed myself with my most recent ladder post. 3.a ironman with fewer slots is a hard game.

                        Comment

                        • wobbly
                          Prophet
                          • May 2012
                          • 2631

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Derakon
                          Good luck doing items 4/5 without making the monsters irritating to fight. In particular, intelligent use of healing and teleportation spells make monsters largely immortal -- unless you introduce monster mana pools, in which case instead fights become two-phase things of first draining the monster's mana and only then being able to kill them. I'm sure these aren't unsolvable problems, but they will need to be taken into consideration.
                          So I played a bit of O & FA again recently. Monster mana is horrible on the big uniques but great on the little guys. The prime example are the Crows of Durthang. Try copying this from O to V, they do not behave "right".

                          A pack of C of Ds curses rapidly from the darkness then rushes the player. Without monster mana it's frequency is too high. Reduce the frequency & it loses much of the original effect.

                          I had the idle thought that you might be able to get a similar effect with a simple counter (see the "ticked off" mechanism in PCB-likes) rather then a mana pool. A monsters spell frequency could be temporarily lower after a series of spells. Perhaps level based to create the rapid initial barrage O has (see also O's eyes). I think this may be interesting on breathers, a "catching it's breathe" effect, with the highest level dragons being more steady & the lower level dragons being initially more feisty but tiring rapidly.

                          Comment

                          • Nick
                            Vanilla maintainer
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 9637

                            #28
                            Originally posted by wobbly
                            So I played a bit of O & FA again recently. Monster mana is horrible on the big uniques but great on the little guys. The prime example are the Crows of Durthang. Try copying this from O to V, they do not behave "right".

                            A pack of C of Ds curses rapidly from the darkness then rushes the player. Without monster mana it's frequency is too high. Reduce the frequency & it loses much of the original effect.

                            I had the idle thought that you might be able to get a similar effect with a simple counter (see the "ticked off" mechanism in PCB-likes) rather then a mana pool. A monsters spell frequency could be temporarily lower after a series of spells. Perhaps level based to create the rapid initial barrage O has (see also O's eyes). I think this may be interesting on breathers, a "catching it's breathe" effect, with the highest level dragons being more steady & the lower level dragons being initially more feisty but tiring rapidly.
                            OK, that's interesting. I'll have a bit of a think about how best to implement that general effect.
                            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                            In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

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