Bugs and complaints on current master

[Derakon]

The unstated presumption is that an artifact must have extra attacks to be an endgame-viable weapon. You could also find an artifact like Deathwreaker, which just does monstrous damage. Anything like that in the randart file?

[Estie]

The unstated presumption is that an artifact must have extra attacks to be an endgame-viable weapon. You could also find an artifact like Deathwreaker, which just does monstrous damage. Anything like that in the randart file?

Yes, Deathwreakers exist, but they are very rare, and no, you dont need extra attacks to be endgame viable. But you need something good and if the pool for good mods gets smaller, you get fewer good weapons. The presumption is not only unstated, it is also nonexistant.

I have created a few (about a dozen) randart files, and only one had a weapon in the same league as a top ego. Standarts have at least 3 (Deathwreaker, Ringil, Doomcaller).

It is certainly possible to make good enough randart weapons without the extra attack mod, but why ? Btw, extra shots still exist - its what makes me think this must be an error.

[Nick]

/* Place the stairs in the north wall */
x = rand_spread(z_info->town_wid / 2, z_info->town_wid / 12);
y = 2;
while (square_isperm(c, y, x) || square_isfiery(c, y, x)) y++;
y--;

This makes commit 9651d36 unnecessary.

Yeah, that's much nicer than my flawed attempt at a solution.

[Derakon]

So it sounds like the issue really is that the relative frequency of "endgame-quality" ego weapons is higher than that of artifacts. It's not like most standart players find any of Ringil/Deathweaker/Doomcaller either.

Whether the answer is to make top-tier egos more rare or to make top-tier artifacts more common is a question for the game balance folks. Keep in mind of course that you can win the game with punching if you're patient and have enough consumables (i.e. there's no objective definition of what "endgame-quality" actually is), so really the question is how long you want fights to last.

[Nick]

Basically, this means that randart weapons are even worse than before, so I would almost always end up with an ego weapon in the endgame, which is not what I want when picking randarts. I assume this is an error ?

Yes, one change I made reduced that significantly. Thanks for telling me - this is precisely the sort of feedback I wanted. I'll put it back

[Pete Mack]

Nick-
The trouble with randarts has always been the attempt to improve value by piling on brands and slays on a weapon with mediocre base damage and bonus. No matter how many are piled on, a 2d5 weapon can never be better than just a 'good' blade of chaos. You end up with a lot of decorated junk and glorified Defender weapons.

Yes, one change I made reduced that significantly. Thanks for telling me - this is precisely the sort of feedback I wanted. I'll put it back

[Nick]

Nick-
The trouble with randarts has always been the attempt to improve value by piling on brands and slays on a weapon with mediocre base damage and bonus. No matter how many are piled on, a 2d5 weapon can never be better than just a 'good' blade of chaos. You end up with a lot of decorated junk and glorified Defender weapons.

Maybe, but the same argument can be made for the standard artifact weapons.

[Pete Mack]

This is true. It is a result of putting max level on ego types and weapon types. In 3.0, Big 3 weapons with big 3 ego types (it was big 4 back then) were pretty rare. They are now found essentially every game.

So it sounds like the issue really is that the relative frequency of "endgame-quality" ego weapons is higher than that of artifacts. It's not like most standart players find any of Ringil/Deathweaker/Doomcaller either.
.

[Nick]

All right, I think we need to talk about randarts again.

[Derakon]

This is true. It is a result of putting max level on ego types and weapon types. In 3.0, Big 3 weapons with big 3 ego types (it was big 4 back then) were pretty rare. They are now found essentially every game.

This in turn sounds like a failure of the allocation system to make allocation rates of ego 1 be independent of allocation rates of ego 2. We shouldn't need to make there be more crappy items just to ensure that there are fewer good items. I smell a theorycrafting post coming...

[Pete Mack]

@Nick--
These are the faults I'm aware of:
* the issue that throwing brands on a weapon will make it better
* the possibility for ridiculously overpowered bows
* the possibility of off-weapon brands or blows. (This is guaranteed to be unbalancing)
* the possibility of truly high power items in every slot. (This is guaranteed to be unbalancing too.)

[takkaria]

This is true. It is a result of putting max level on ego types and weapon types. In 3.0, Big 3 weapons with big 3 ego types (it was big 4 back then) were pretty rare. They are now found essentially every game.

Until recently nightlies the maximum level on egos wasn't actually enforced - there was a number in the ego file but it wasn't used anywhere. So it seems likely there is another explanation.

[Estie]

Curses:

When I read a scroll of remove curse, it prompts first the item choice, then the available curses. When I press "arrow down" in the 2nd situation, the game crashes.

Also: How do I select a curse to remove ? When I press "return" on the 2nd prompt, the popup closes without any message, the curse is still there and the item has not become fragile. Did the game attempt to remove it, or does return just exit ? The scroll is gone, so I hope its the former. It would be helpful to get some dialogue feedback on what is going on.

[Nick]

Curses:

When I read a scroll of remove curse, it prompts first the item choice, then the available curses. When I press "arrow down" in the 2nd situation, the game crashes.

Also: How do I select a curse to remove ? When I press "return" on the 2nd prompt, the popup closes without any message, the curse is still there and the item has not become fragile. Did the game attempt to remove it, or does return just exit ? The scroll is gone, so I hope its the former. It would be helpful to get some dialogue feedback on what is going on.

I think the correct answer is the game doesn't know what the hell it's doing

I'll try to fix that.

[PowerWyrm]

I havent been playing much, but looking at the randrat file of my latest characters, not a single randart had extra attacks. Standarts are still the same.

This is a bug in commit 4e5780a. Extra attacks (as well as extra might/shots on shooters) are "powerful".

if (powerful) {
    if (one_in_(2 * art->modifiers[mod])) {
        art->modifiers[mod]++;
    }
}

Of course, since you try to add to a modifier with value of zero, the chance is one_in_(zero)...

From the old code, this should be:

if (powerful) {
    if (art->modifiers[mod] == 0)
        art->modifiers[mod] = randint1(2);
    else if (one_in_(2 * art->modifiers[mod])) {
        art->modifiers[mod]++;
    }
}