Rune-based ID

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  • debo
    Veteran
    • Oct 2011
    • 2402

    Originally posted by AnonymousHero
    I am serious... and don't call me "can you".

    Well, only semi-serious. I just think that GCU is not worth supporting because it's probably quite rarely used and it requires weird workarounds and special cases in code. Admittedly, I'm probably very biased because I'm 'maintaining' and/or 'ruining' ToME 2.x. Just to be clear: I'm not saying we shouldn't have ASCII (my preferred interface, in fact) -- I'm just saying that supporting playing inside a terminal window (as opposed to spawning a new window) doesn't seem worth the complexity to me.
    GCU is the only way feasible way for people to play Angband variants on things ilke termcast.org so that other players can watch and learn from them. A fair number of folks still do this. I started with the thick clients, and I like GCU a lot better.
    Glaurung, Father of the Dragons says, 'You cannot avoid the ballyhack.'

    Comment

    • Pete Mack
      Prophet
      • Apr 2007
      • 6883

      Last I played GCU, it didn't have enough colors to render all the monsters correctly. Has anything changed?

      Comment

      • nikheizen
        Adept
        • Jul 2015
        • 144

        Originally posted by Pete Mack
        Last I played GCU, it didn't have enough colors to render all the monsters correctly. Has anything changed?
        I get the full range of colours when running through cygwin on windows (with mintty), but limited colours when running on ubuntu (using konsole).

        Comment

        • PowerWyrm
          Prophet
          • Apr 2008
          • 2986

          Player knowledge is now transfered to objects on walkover (see move_player). However, it's not transfered when the player is moved to another location (by use of monster_swap -- teleport, recall...), so you have to manually move away and back to the square to get knowledge of what's under the player. Probably should.
          PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

          Comment

          • PowerWyrm
            Prophet
            • Apr 2008
            • 2986

            Angband 4.0.5:
            - torch 6 gold
            - lantern 564 gold
            - shovel 66 gold
            - pick 176 gold

            Rune branch:
            - torch 1 gold
            - lantern 24 gold
            - shovel 24 gold
            - pick 50 gold

            This is because normal light and digging bonuses don't account for price anymore. Probably should.
            PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

            Comment

            • PowerWyrm
              Prophet
              • Apr 2008
              • 2986

              Potions of slime mold juice don't ID on use.
              PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

              Comment

              • d_m
                Angband Devteam member
                • Aug 2008
                • 1517

                Originally posted by Pete Mack
                Last I played GCU, it didn't have enough colors to render all the monsters correctly. Has anything changed?
                GCU has been able to render all the colors for many years now, but you do need a correctly-configured terminal (e.g. one that can support TERM=xterm-256color).

                I don't think that GCU should dominate over other front-ends, but I do think it still sees a lot of use. (GCU the only way I play Angband, for example.) I would strongly argue against dropping support.

                If we need to do things that would "break" GCU, I think a more fundamental UI split between GCU and other display ports would make more sense instead of removal.
                linux->xterm->screen->pmacs

                Comment

                • spara
                  Adept
                  • Nov 2014
                  • 235

                  Playing the current master on linux and since this seems to be an ID case, I'll post it here. Character found an un-IDd ring that boosted dex and stealth upon wearing. And after trying to hit an enemy the ring reveals itself to be a Ring of the Mouse and the game informs that "You have learned the rune of enchantment to damage".

                  The problem is that that damage enchantment is not visible in the ring after ID. It just says Ring of the Mouse <+2, +3>. Character info gives correctly -5 to melee and the dagger used correctly does no damage.

                  Comment

                  • PowerWyrm
                    Prophet
                    • Apr 2008
                    • 2986

                    Originally posted by spara
                    Playing the current master on linux and since this seems to be an ID case, I'll post it here. Character found an un-IDd ring that boosted dex and stealth upon wearing. And after trying to hit an enemy the ring reveals itself to be a Ring of the Mouse and the game informs that "You have learned the rune of enchantment to damage".

                    The problem is that that damage enchantment is not visible in the ring after ID. It just says Ring of the Mouse <+2, +3>. Character info gives correctly -5 to melee and the dagger used correctly does no damage.
                    You won't see the enchantment until you've also learned tohit.
                    PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

                    Comment

                    • spara
                      Adept
                      • Nov 2014
                      • 235

                      Ah. That explains it. Hasn't happened to me before. Made me wonder though. Maybe something in the ring's inscription would be in order here?

                      Comment

                      • PowerWyrm
                        Prophet
                        • Apr 2008
                        • 2986

                        Originally posted by spara
                        Ah. That explains it. Hasn't happened to me before. Made me wonder though. Maybe something in the ring's inscription would be in order here?
                        Nope, you just need to hit something with tohit bonus to learn it. Ring of the mouse has +0 tohit, so you won't learn the rune unless your weapon is enchanted.
                        PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

                        Comment

                        • spara
                          Adept
                          • Nov 2014
                          • 235

                          Originally posted by PowerWyrm
                          Nope, you just need to hit something with tohit bonus to learn it. Ring of the mouse has +0 tohit, so you won't learn the rune unless your weapon is enchanted.
                          But how should a random player know that? I know this is a corner case, but it sure had me perplexed for a while and I'm adequately familiar with the game.

                          Assume that the player does not know what a Ring of the Mouse is or does. In a case where ToHit rune has not been revealed yet, the player sees a Ring of the Mouse <+2, +3>. Not a bad ring, I would say. No clue anywhere of the negative ToDam rune. Dagger shows 0 dmg and char info shows D4-5, but that's it.

                          Just a proposition, but maybe when only one of the ToHit and ToDam enhancements have been learned, enhancement could be presented with (x) notation. In this case a Ring of the Mouse (-5) <+2, +3>.

                          Comment

                          • Nick
                            Vanilla maintainer
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 9634

                            Originally posted by spara
                            Just a proposition, but maybe when only one of the ToHit and ToDam enhancements have been learned, enhancement could be presented with (x) notation. In this case a Ring of the Mouse (-5) <+2, +3>.
                            This sounds sensible.
                            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                            In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                            Comment

                            • kandrc
                              Swordsman
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 299

                              Mass banishment

                              I just lost an ironman mage to ID by use when I read an un-ID'd "mass banishment" in a big vault. Character was full HP (about 180) and in a safe position, and the vault, a "Castle Death" was half, perhaps 2/3, cleared.

                              I like the ID-by-use mechanism, but it's often annoying with some (usually less than useful) scrolls, wands, rods, and staves that are difficult to determine. This was my first ID-by-use instadeath, and it was rather infuriating. Many items must be used in the presence of NPCs to ID, and here's one giving the opposite strategy: use in the absence of NPCs to avoid instadeath.

                              I don't think there's a reasonable strategy to avoid this as the game currently stands at top of tree in git. I would advocate for the old-style ID still working on consumables. Strong (big HP) characters can safely read any scroll, or use magical ID if they have it available, and weak characters can avoid new twists on old instadeaths.

                              Comment

                              • Estie
                                Veteran
                                • Apr 2008
                                • 2346

                                I avoid testing unidentified consumables in vaults, for various reasons. For example, destruction and earthquake are some other effects I rather not have go off in the vault. It is tempting though when the inventory fills up with loot, items need to be shuffled and dropped, and then theres this additional consumable that will go away when used. Very tempting.

                                Comment

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