Rune-based ID

[debo]

I am serious... and don't call me "can you".

Well, only semi-serious. I just think that GCU is not worth supporting because it's probably quite rarely used and it requires weird workarounds and special cases in code. Admittedly, I'm probably very biased because I'm 'maintaining' and/or 'ruining' ToME 2.x. Just to be clear: I'm not saying we shouldn't have ASCII (my preferred interface, in fact) -- I'm just saying that supporting playing inside a terminal window (as opposed to spawning a new window) doesn't seem worth the complexity to me.

GCU is the only way feasible way for people to play Angband variants on things ilke termcast.org so that other players can watch and learn from them. A fair number of folks still do this. I started with the thick clients, and I like GCU a lot better.

[Pete Mack]

Last I played GCU, it didn't have enough colors to render all the monsters correctly. Has anything changed?

[nikheizen]

Last I played GCU, it didn't have enough colors to render all the monsters correctly. Has anything changed?

I get the full range of colours when running through cygwin on windows (with mintty), but limited colours when running on ubuntu (using konsole).

[PowerWyrm]

Player knowledge is now transfered to objects on walkover (see move_player). However, it's not transfered when the player is moved to another location (by use of monster_swap -- teleport, recall...), so you have to manually move away and back to the square to get knowledge of what's under the player. Probably should.

[PowerWyrm]

Angband 4.0.5:
- torch 6 gold
- lantern 564 gold
- shovel 66 gold
- pick 176 gold

Rune branch:
- torch 1 gold
- lantern 24 gold
- shovel 24 gold
- pick 50 gold

This is because normal light and digging bonuses don't account for price anymore. Probably should.

[PowerWyrm]

Potions of slime mold juice don't ID on use.

[d_m]

Last I played GCU, it didn't have enough colors to render all the monsters correctly. Has anything changed?

GCU has been able to render all the colors for many years now, but you do need a correctly-configured terminal (e.g. one that can support TERM=xterm-256color).

I don't think that GCU should dominate over other front-ends, but I do think it still sees a lot of use. (GCU the only way I play Angband, for example.) I would strongly argue against dropping support.

If we need to do things that would "break" GCU, I think a more fundamental UI split between GCU and other display ports would make more sense instead of removal.

[spara]

Playing the current master on linux and since this seems to be an ID case, I'll post it here. Character found an un-IDd ring that boosted dex and stealth upon wearing. And after trying to hit an enemy the ring reveals itself to be a Ring of the Mouse and the game informs that "You have learned the rune of enchantment to damage".

The problem is that that damage enchantment is not visible in the ring after ID. It just says Ring of the Mouse <+2, +3>. Character info gives correctly -5 to melee and the dagger used correctly does no damage.

[PowerWyrm]

Playing the current master on linux and since this seems to be an ID case, I'll post it here. Character found an un-IDd ring that boosted dex and stealth upon wearing. And after trying to hit an enemy the ring reveals itself to be a Ring of the Mouse and the game informs that "You have learned the rune of enchantment to damage".

The problem is that that damage enchantment is not visible in the ring after ID. It just says Ring of the Mouse <+2, +3>. Character info gives correctly -5 to melee and the dagger used correctly does no damage.

You won't see the enchantment until you've also learned tohit.

[spara]

Ah. That explains it. Hasn't happened to me before. Made me wonder though. Maybe something in the ring's inscription would be in order here?

[PowerWyrm]

Ah. That explains it. Hasn't happened to me before. Made me wonder though. Maybe something in the ring's inscription would be in order here?

Nope, you just need to hit something with tohit bonus to learn it. Ring of the mouse has +0 tohit, so you won't learn the rune unless your weapon is enchanted.

[spara]

Nope, you just need to hit something with tohit bonus to learn it. Ring of the mouse has +0 tohit, so you won't learn the rune unless your weapon is enchanted.

But how should a random player know that? I know this is a corner case, but it sure had me perplexed for a while and I'm adequately familiar with the game.

Assume that the player does not know what a Ring of the Mouse is or does. In a case where ToHit rune has not been revealed yet, the player sees a Ring of the Mouse <+2, +3>. Not a bad ring, I would say. No clue anywhere of the negative ToDam rune. Dagger shows 0 dmg and char info shows D4-5, but that's it.

Just a proposition, but maybe when only one of the ToHit and ToDam enhancements have been learned, enhancement could be presented with (x) notation. In this case a Ring of the Mouse (-5) <+2, +3>.

[Nick]

Just a proposition, but maybe when only one of the ToHit and ToDam enhancements have been learned, enhancement could be presented with (x) notation. In this case a Ring of the Mouse (-5) <+2, +3>.

This sounds sensible.

[kandrc]

Mass banishment

I just lost an ironman mage to ID by use when I read an un-ID'd "mass banishment" in a big vault. Character was full HP (about 180) and in a safe position, and the vault, a "Castle Death" was half, perhaps 2/3, cleared.

I like the ID-by-use mechanism, but it's often annoying with some (usually less than useful) scrolls, wands, rods, and staves that are difficult to determine. This was my first ID-by-use instadeath, and it was rather infuriating. Many items must be used in the presence of NPCs to ID, and here's one giving the opposite strategy: use in the absence of NPCs to avoid instadeath.

I don't think there's a reasonable strategy to avoid this as the game currently stands at top of tree in git. I would advocate for the old-style ID still working on consumables. Strong (big HP) characters can safely read any scroll, or use magical ID if they have it available, and weak characters can avoid new twists on old instadeaths.

[Estie]

I avoid testing unidentified consumables in vaults, for various reasons. For example, destruction and earthquake are some other effects I rather not have go off in the vault. It is tempting though when the inventory fills up with loot, items need to be shuffled and dropped, and then theres this additional consumable that will go away when used. Very tempting.