Rune-based ID

[Nick]

So my general feeling here is that ID spells probably should be more restricted or even removed - maybe just have them as a thematic thing for mages and no-one else?

One minor bug persists. Autoinscriptions often do not appear when an unknown item is put in the inventory or equipped and the rune or flavor subsequently becomes known. Some other event, such as dropping and picking the item back up is often necessary. Oddly, other actions taken, such as activating the Phial can cause an autoinscription on a different item, such as a wand, to attach. It reminds me of what happens if @ ignores an item while on the doorstep of a shop. The item isn't ignored and dropped until some other action occurs.

Yes, I need to make sure autoinscription and ignoring are both happening at the right time now, given that the necessary knowledge is coming in different places. Also messages about learning flavours, etc are not quite right yet.

[StMicah]

Don't know if this has been reported...but on the latest rune-id build playing randarts, the same artifact has generated a number of times. I'm playing a ranger and have noticed the same sling (it has ESP and Poison resist) once around dlvl 40 when I played with it equipped for a while and just know on dlvl 95 in a GV. This also happened (I think) with the phial.

[Nick]

Don't know if this has been reported...but on the latest rune-id build playing randarts, the same artifact has generated a number of times. I'm playing a ranger and have noticed the same sling (it has ESP and Poison resist) once around dlvl 40 when I played with it equipped for a while and just know on dlvl 95 in a GV. This also happened (I think) with the phial.

OK, thanks, I didn't know that. Just to confirm - you saw the name of the artifact the first time, and then it got generated again later?

[Estie]

So my general feeling here is that ID spells probably should be more restricted or even removed - maybe just have them as a thematic thing for mages and no-one else?

My rogue just hit spell-id level and was very glad for it, having multiple items in the house which required iding. For the most part the missing runes were high resists, some of which I guessed but didnt bother to carry the item around for (unlikely) test opportunities. I dont think I would test more with a warrior either - just wait a bit longer for more id scrolls.

Delaying the spell more would still keep it usefull, maybe up to another 5 levels or so. Giving it to the mage only also wouldnt be horrible, though I dont really see much value in having the house full of objects waiting for id scrolls. Either way, it works fine; its not so much that rune-id creates the awesome new id minigame, its more that it is a working system and the lategame id orgies are history. That, in my eyes, is its main advantage.

[spara]

My rogue just hit spell-id level and was very glad for it, having multiple items in the house which required iding...

I think that for the ID mini game the house should not get full of unIDd objects. A few is good the excitement, but stacks of them sounds like no fun. Maybe the probability for ID scrolls appearing should be higher?

[StMicah]

OK, thanks, I didn't know that. Just to confirm - you saw the name of the artifact the first time, and then it got generated again later?

Yep: same name and properties. They don't show up in the character history of second time, but I'm pretty sure that both the phial and this sling showed up in GVs after I had found them and discarded/ignored them earlier.

[Nick]

This is mainly a reminder for me of the outstanding issues on this branch, which IIRC are:

1. Artifacts being generated more than once
2. Insufficient messages on learning stuff
3. Autoinscription not happening at all the right times (and ignore should be checked too)
4. The ID spell is possibly only needed by mages, or maybe even not at all - in any case, it needs thought

I've filed the tweaking of mushroom effect times as a task for 4.1, separate from this branch.

Please do add more issues to this thread if they arise, but I'm probably going to leave this branch untouched for a while and do other things. There will also need to be a discussion at some stage about whether this is really what we want to do

[Ingwe Ingweron]

The ID spell is possibly only needed by mages, or maybe even not at all - in any case, it needs thought...

Personally, I was very glad you brought this back. I think it should stay, with perhaps the mana cost and spell level tweaked. I would also leave it for the other spell casters.

Reasons for my feeling this way: 1. It returns to mages one of the advantages among their many disadvantages. 2. In play, with the spell available, at least my test forced-descent @'s have been able to learn all the runes by the time of the final battles. Without the availability of the spell, I found this much harder to accomplish. 3. if my @'s can't get the runes identified in the normal course by the time of the final fights, then the new id system is more burdensome to me than the old. With the spell available for the magic/prayer casters, then the the id game remains fun in the beginning and by the time it isn't fun, everything is identified.

[Carnivean]

In play, with the spell available, at least my test forced-descent @'s have been able to learn all the runes by the time of the final battles. Without the availability of the spell, I found this much harder to accomplish.

The point of Rune-ID is to eliminate IDing anything in the end game, as that's annoying. Therefore the end game should be given an approximate starting point, say dlvl 60 or clvl 30, and a method to eliminate the ID mini-game should be given. For mages and priests this should definitely be a spell, as it fits the theme of their character.

[spara]

I've played with Ranger and Warrior so far. For the ranger the spell seems to come available a bit too fast, while the ID game is still hot. I suggest upping the CLevel for it a bit. The spell can also be considered to be more powerful, since it's a permanent ID. For the warrior I'm craving for more ID scrolls. Not much, just a bit more. I suggest upping the dungeon probability little. Also helps ironmen. If they need any help I mean, they're ironmen after all .

[Nomad]

Rune-based auto-inscription is leaking information - in a previous game, I set up an inscription of {FA} on items with free action. Playing another game with the same save file, I picked up an unidentified pair of gloves and they immediately auto-inscribed {FA} despite the fact I haven't learned the rune for it yet.

[spara]

Is there some rational reason for some of the item activations to be hidden and some instantly known? For example rings of fire, acid etc. need to be activated once to be known, but for example leather gloves of Cammithir are instantly identified to produce magic missiles.

[Nick]

Is there some rational reason for some of the item activations to be hidden and some instantly known? For example rings of fire, acid etc. need to be activated once to be known, but for example leather gloves of Cammithir are instantly identified to produce magic missiles.

I actually can't quite recall - I'll check when I get back to working on this branch.

[Derakon]

I actually can't quite recall - I'll check when I get back to working on this branch.

I'm inclined to say that all activations should be obvious on pickup. Is there a compelling reason for this not to be the case?

[PowerWyrm]

I'm inclined to say that all activations should be obvious on pickup. Is there a compelling reason for this not to be the case?

Activations are like devices, you should know them when you successfully activate something the first time.