Rune-based ID

[PowerWyrm]

Latest builds for Windows and OS X.

Changes:

• Monster list updates correctly (thanks to PowerWyrm and molybdenum)
• 'l'ook command no longer looks at ignored floor items
• Lack of sustain is noticed on items after stat drain

I think that's all the known bugs dealt with - please let me know if I've missed any, or report new ones. Also opinions on how this branch is looking now are welcome.

I have just realised that I haven't implemented an Identify spell - I guess that will happen for next build (unless there are objections). Plan was for it to pretty much be as before - cheap and early for mages, less cheap and later for rogues and rangers, in a dungeon book for priests and paladins.

Now there's a check in monster_list_can_update() vs cave_monster_max() that only allows redraw when entries_size >= cave_monster_max(). This means that the list won't be updated if you enter a level which has more monsters than the previous one. The check should simply be removed to let monster_list_reset() deal with the case where there are more monsters to display than the list has entries.

[Nick]

Now there's a check in monster_list_can_update() vs cave_monster_max() that only allows redraw when entries_size >= cave_monster_max(). This means that the list won't be updated if you enter a level which has more monsters than the previous one. The check should simply be removed to let monster_list_reset() deal with the case where there are more monsters to display than the list has entries.

I think this is OK, as monster_list_reset() gets called on every subwindow update, and if entries_size < cave_monster_max() it immediately re-allocates the list so its size is cave_monster_max(), and the check will succeed again.

The point is to make sure there are enough entries in the list to take every monster on the level. It is not currently necessary as monster_list_collect() is only ever called after either monster_list_new() or monster_list_reset(), both of which set the list size to cave_monster_max(); but it is a sensible check to have to avoid overrunning the list array.

[spara]

This feels a bit quirky. Maybe the name of a ring of element should identify when the rune is known? That {??} is also a bit misleading as it refers to the activation. Making {??} mean explicitly unknown runes would help here. Is that {tried, ??} even needed to flag untested activation? Inscription already says the item can be aimed.

[spara]

Some other form of ID than testing would be nice for mushrooms. In practice I never test them because of their trade off effects. I have suggested this earlier, but maybe identify scrolls could also identify mushrooms, scrolls and potions.

[Derakon]

Some other form of ID than testing would be nice for mushrooms. In practice I never test them because of their trade off effects. I have suggested this earlier, but maybe identify scrolls could also identify mushrooms, scrolls and potions.

Most side-effects from mushrooms wear off fairly quickly. The only one that I think could be toned down is the hallucination from Mushrooms of Emergency, which takes really too long to wear off. What is it, 500+ turns? 50 would be more appropriate IMO.

[spara]

Most side-effects from mushrooms wear off fairly quickly. The only one that I think could be toned down is the hallucination from Mushrooms of Emergency, which takes really too long to wear off. What is it, 500+ turns? 50 would be more appropriate IMO.

It might just be that the first mushroom I ever ate was Emergency. It made me very, very wary about mushrooms. The game is obviously educational here .

[Estie]

Yes mushroom of hallu is the reason I dont test them; even if I dont outright die during 500 turns of disorientation, its far too nerve-wracking to risk. Also, it doesnt help that I only use 1,5 of them.

Edit: I mean mushroom of emergency of course, which produces hallucination.

[Derakon]

I just checked; Mushrooms of Emergency are 249+1d101 turns of hallucination (a.k.a. 250-350 turns). I'd say a flat 50 turns is a lot more reasonable, gameplay-wise.

[Nick]

The latest builds - Windows and OS X - are up.

Changes:

• Identify spells are back
• I've adopted spara's suggestion of {??} meaning unidentified runes

I'm not aware of anything that needs fixing on this branch; let me know if there is. The point about ,Emergency is probably good - some time before 4.1 I was going to have a quick look aver all the objects with this sort of thing in mind.

[Nomad]

I think the duration for Mushrooms of Terror could probably stand to be cut down a bit as well. It's not as frustrating as Emergency, but does seem to last a bit unfairly long considering you often encounter them on very early levels (plus most of the positive mushroom effects wear off in about a quarter of the time).

Actually, I could see the argument for giving all mushroom effects the same base duration of 50 - it would make the positive ones more worthwhile and the negative ones less risky to ID by use. Currently the durations seem to be:

Clear Mind: 18-72
Second Sight: 34-105
Stoneskin/Terror: 80-120
Sprinting: 100
Emergency: 250-350 (hallucination), 20-40 (resists)

How about standardising those to:

Terror/Emergency(all effects): 50
Clear Mind/Second Sight/Stoneskin: 50-100
Sprinting: 100

[spara]

Great job. After playing a few hours with the latest version, the runeID mechanic feels very good and natural.

A couple of minor things that caught my eye.

1. Sometimes when IDing runes, the messages come in a funny order. Something like:

...
You have learned the rune enchant to hit.
You have learned the rune enchant to damage.
The arrow {??} hits the target
...

Maybe the learning messages should come later or the arrow should have it's properties shown?

2. Now that testing wands, staff and rods is the way to ID them, I'm missing notification messages when identifying. Some have them from the previous version and some don't. Something like "You have a staff of Sleep Monsters (9)." would be nice when zapping an unknown magical device.

Also, is IDing wands now too safe, like Nomad pointed earlier? Just zap them in an empty room and no harm can happen. Wands of clone monster, haste monster etc. have sort of lost their point.

3. That pesky disappearing tiles problem is still annoying. As Nomad already wrote, it's connected to the big tiles and non-Shockbolt tiles. For example, it happens with 4x2 magnifier and Gervais tiles.

Anyway, big thanks for the constant development. I'm enjoying the game tremendously .

[Ingwe Ingweron]

One minor bug persists. Autoinscriptions often do not appear when an unknown item is put in the inventory or equipped and the rune or flavor subsequently becomes known. Some other event, such as dropping and picking the item back up is often necessary. Oddly, other actions taken, such as activating the Phial can cause an autoinscription on a different item, such as a wand, to attach. It reminds me of what happens if @ ignores an item while on the doorstep of a shop. The item isn't ignored and dropped until some other action occurs.

[tprice]

I've gotten my Ranger down to DL59 and I'm finding I don't really care about the ID spell you put back into book m3 a few patches ago.

ID by use was fun in the early CLvls. It was fun juggling gear that you don't know what it is at all. ID Scrolls drop occasionally in the early game, giving you a needed hint on a stubborn item.

Here in the mid-game I find ID Scrolls decently often and usually in small stacks, more than enough to ID the few unknown runes i'm finding occasional (and those can be hard to ID by use since they are for obscure effects or the gear swap would cause you to many problems).

ID Spell, eh. might as well turn on AutoID on Walkover. No sense of "what IS that rune?" when you can cast it at will. At least that's how its feeling to me right now.

Still like the RuneID in general though! I like it a lot. I bet its actually an improvement for a pure warrior. hmmm might try one next after my current ranger wins (or dies but finding Bard's Bow on DL45 made the game a lot easier suddenly) to test out that impression. I normally skipped Warriors because of the lack of ID drove me nuts.

[Pete Mack]

Lack of ID isn't the weakness for warrior. It's lack of detection,combined with bad magical devices, poor stealth, and bad saving throw. Together, those can easily overwhelm a character so he can't escape, until he either gets detection or ESP. Trying to activate a staff of teleportation with bad device skill while confused is bad news. Just one lesser titan, or a room full of hummerhorns.

[spara]

At least for a ranger the ID spell in a book feels kind of pointless. There are enough id scrolls around at that point. Somehow, now, the spell in a book also feels a bit out of place. If an early ID is a problem for weak casters, there are possibilities:

* Casters could get some known runes to start with and learn more on level up. These could be thematically chosen, so that different casters get different runes at different levels.
* Maybe there could be a town book of runes that all casters can read. You could browse it, but learning would be passive, tied to the caster level and/or int/wis.
* There could be a delayed autoID of runes, when wearing unknown runic objects around. The length it takes to autoID a random rune would be tied to CL/intelligence/wisdom.