Rune-based ID

[Nomad]

If @ can recognize a known rune on any item after learning the rune, then should @ also be able to recognize (but not know the meaning of) an unknown rune if @ sees it on multiple items? Or should runes only be differentiated from each other after they have been identified?

V4 used to have randomly generated names like scroll names for the unknown runes, so you could see on the inspect screen how many unknown runes there were, and compare two items to see if, say, they both had the rune 'Tyr' meaning you could safely ditch one, or one had 'Tyr' and the other had 'Ogg' so you knew they were two different things. (The rune knowledge page on the knowledge menu also functioned like object knowledge, where you could see a list of all the unknown 'flavours' still to be discovered.)

I can see arguments for both systems - on the one hand, naming and listing the runes makes inventory management easier, but on the other not knowing that information preserves a bit of mystery and excitement where you've got no way to tell at first if that Robe {??} you picked up is just something basic like Resist Fire or a really lucky find of a Robe of Permanence.

[Nomad]

Incidentally, the added entry to the knowledge screen now means you now have to scroll the menu to see the last entry, and the menu entry stays greyed out even after having learned some runes (though you can still select it fine). Actually, it seems that's stayed greyed but "artifact knowledge" has turned white despite still being non-selectable and empty, so I'm guessing there's a numbering error somewhere.

Addendum to this bug report: the shop contents knowledge is also all shifted by one - menu items up to traps work correctly, and so do the last two, hall of fame and character history, but choosing "Display contents of general store" gets you the next shop down, the armourer, instead; choosing armourer gets the weaponsmith, and so on down the line to "home", which causes a crash. (Seem to recall the same thing happening before when the separate trap knowledge section was added to the menu.)

[Pete Mack]

I don't really care if the runes have names --it'd be nice, but it's not critical. I do want to know how many runes there are, as it's a good proxy for weapon power. It's the easiest way to distinguish a slay weapon or a single -resist armor from others. I also hope autoinscribe is possible on flavors now? I am thinking of amulets of devotion and the like, where the type is obvious, even if you don't know all the runes.

[Nomad]

I also hope autoinscribe is possible on flavors now? I am thinking of amulets of devotion and the like, where the type is obvious, even if you don't know all the runes.

Doesn't look like you can auto-inscribe unknown flavours, unfortunately, even {tried} ones.

[HermannD]

Regarding the “Those have the same runes” and “This has n runes” suggestions: I loathe any kind of inventory minigame and am in favour of nearly anything reducing that. (Yeah, unlimited inventory would be kinda boring, but any finite inv. is to small for a hoarder like me.) But theses gave me ideas about the explanation, should we decide against those: All the magical objects have runes scribbled all over them. There is no telling how many of them are magical or which agreeing patterns are matching magic machinations and which ones pure coincidence. I did not (yet) get around to play this feature branch, but I like this explanation. It feels quite immersive and mysterious. I might be the only one, though.

Also, my headcanon about cancelled potions still id'ing is that the potion was fully quaffed, but spewn back into the flask upon identification. (I briefly considered sniffing it being sufficient but that idea was rejected for being insufficiently gross.)

Also, I'm looking forward to finding the free time to give this version a go. Sounds like a lot of fun, from reading this thread. Keep up the good work, everybody.

[spara]

...There is no telling how many of them are magical or which agreeing patterns are matching magic machinations and which ones pure coincidence...

I like this idea.

BTW, I have not seen anything like this before. I wish I had the money...

[Derakon]

I like this idea.

BTW, I have not seen anything like this before. I wish I had the money...

...why is a potion of Augmentation more than 5x the cost of a single-stat potion when it's less than 5x the value of same?

[debo]

...why is a potion of Augmentation more than 5x the cost of a single-stat potion when it's less than 5x the value of same?

That's the price of convenience.

[Nick]

I think I have suggested this before, but it would be nice, if I have an unidentified equipment that has question marks all over char info and I then get poisoned, the resist poison rune would get overruled from char info. Naturally assuming I don't know the resist poison rune. Would help remembering what I have already tested against the particular equipment.

This is possible, but would require a change in the way known objects are stored - in fact, back to the way it was before the rune-based ID branch

It probably makes too much sense not to do.

Could the tile for the new Identify scroll just be the same as the old Identify scroll? Just recycling the tile. Currently it's a ? when playing with the tiles. And the name should probably be Identify Rune or something instead of Identify.

Thanks for the reminder.

The disappearing tiles when targeting bug is still around. And it's quite annoying.

Yeah, still haven't found that one.

Auto-inscriptions by rune might be the way to go instead now we've got the entry on the knowledge menu - that way you could achieve the "don't ignore by rune" by setting up a "!k" inscription for items with ESP, but it would also be handy for setting items with aggravation to prompt you before wearing, automatically marking useful randarts and elvenkinds with reminders of their properties, and so on.

This sounds like a good idea.

Incidentally, the added entry to the knowledge screen now means you now have to scroll the menu to see the last entry, and the menu entry stays greyed out even after having learned some runes (though you can still select it fine). Actually, it seems that's stayed greyed but "artifact knowledge" has turned white despite still being non-selectable and empty, so I'm guessing there's a numbering error somewhere.

Found that right after posting...

I would probably reintroduce an Identify/Perception spell at least for the major spellcasters -Mage and Priest. Possibly increasing the mana cost and level of the spell. Because these classes have a large inventory allotment to books, they cannot carry around as many items as the other classes just waiting for an opportunity to learn a rune. All the study that is assumedly required to embark on a career as a mage or priest surely would include a study of runes.

This and the question of whether we need a "learn a random rune" scroll I want to leave until we have a bit more of a feel for how the overall system works. Remember that I have evil plans to massively reduce the number of books and spells in the 4.2 overhaul of classes, so I'm looking to lose rather than gain spells.

Weapons in artifact spoiler lack (to_hit, to_dam) and armour lack (ac_bonus)

Thanks.

I also hope autoinscribe is possible on flavors now? I am thinking of amulets of devotion and the like, where the type is obvious, even if you don't know all the runes.

That's a good idea too.

Thanks everyone for the immediate and voluminous feedback

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Another possibility for learning runes occurs to me. What about if @ reads a scroll of Aggravate Monster, they also learn the "Aggravation" rune? Or more commonly, reading a scroll of Detect Invisible, they would also learn the See Invisible rune. It would make sense to me, in that the rune might be inscribed on the scroll (or embedded in hot wax seal on the scroll). I'm not sure it would be as sensible on a potion. Would a potion of True Seeing be etched with the See Invisible rune? Anyway, just one more potential way to streamline and quicken the ID game.

[Nivra]

Do we support unicode or only ASCII?

If Unicode, then you could have runes be actual Nordic Runes:

http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U16A0.pdf

[Nick]

Warning

Next build will break savefiles. This is a consequence of implementing autoinscribe for unaware flavors.

[spara]

This might be connected to the disappearing tiles or not. In this image I have pressed the look command and hit down arrow once. For some reason the game targets an open space.



Here's a save file, if it's of use: open_space.zip. Just activate look and press down arrow once.

[spara]

This save reliably produces a disappearing tile for me. Take one step right and then look left (look + left arrow). Every time @ disappears.


initial position


one step right, the warg follows


activate look mode


look left, @*disappears

save: disappearing_tile.zip

[Nick]

Thanks, noted. This is a problem in all outstanding versions.