Rune-based ID

[logos]

My thinking was that there are some runes that are both rare and tricky to identify by use, like resistance to nether/chaos/disenchantment and some status protections. While it's certainly true that you could just wait until you have an item with that rune and then read a ?Identify on it, the "learn a random rune" scroll can also serve to patch holes in your knowledge and thereby mean that you won't be 99% done with the "identification game" but at 3000' and still having to hold onto ?Identify so you'll be able to fill in the last few gaps.

In other words, I'd expect players to get most of the way there via ID-by-use and using the occasional ?Identify, and then get the rest of the way there via the Scroll of Runes. It should, correspondingly, be more rare than ?Identify.

Perhaps instead of identify rune scrolls, bring back potions of self-knowledge which instead of full knowledge grant knowledge of a single rune of a carried/worn object; and have individual scrolls of dictionary/learning that grant knowledge of a specific rune - say 'Scroll of the rune of Nexus', or 'Rosetta papyrus of Disenchantment' for more flavor.

[debo]

There's a very noticeable difference between a +1 digger and a +6 digger. Your average starting shovel isn't good for much beyond rubble and magma veins, while a highly-enchanted digger can let you bore through granite even if you're relatively weak. I don't see a compelling reason to throw away that spectrum. Remember that half the classes can't cast Stone to Mud.

The other half of the classes can bash easily through granite with normal weapons pretty early on. I literally don't remember ever carrying a digger in Vanilla, and I don't think I've ever looked at a digging pval on a weapon as any sort of overriding reason as to why I should keep it. However, I do appreciate the desire to not change too many things at once

I was hoping one of the outcomes of this rune-id thing would be "wow we have so much useless stuff and now it's finally super annoying because I have to ID it all. Let's remove some."

[Nick]

My thinking was that there are some runes that are both rare and tricky to identify by use, like resistance to nether/chaos/disenchantment and some status protections. While it's certainly true that you could just wait until you have an item with that rune and then read a ?Identify on it, the "learn a random rune" scroll can also serve to patch holes in your knowledge and thereby mean that you won't be 99% done with the "identification game" but at 3000' and still having to hold onto ?Identify so you'll be able to fill in the last few gaps.

In other words, I'd expect players to get most of the way there via ID-by-use and using the occasional ?Identify, and then get the rest of the way there via the Scroll of Runes. It should, correspondingly, be more rare than ?Identify.

They still look like marginal utility to me. After all, if you are having trouble identifying a rune, maybe it isn't very important. I'm inclined to leave them out for a bit, and see if the need seems to arise.

For the rest, it looks like we've got to the stage of filling up the corners. I'll put up a new build once I've settled all the outstanding issues.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

It seems we have lost the special flavors that used to be reserved for certain artifacts. E.g., Narya which used to always be a "Ruby Ring", now is listed merely as a "Ring". Was this intentional?

[sandtrap]

Observation: Wand & Staff ID on use / Gnome

No problem with the change. But Gnomes lost their minor racial advantage.

I don't see it as a big problem.

[Nomad]

No problem with the change. But Gnomes lost their minor racial advantage.

Well, they still get a tiny edge, since they get to ID the wands/staves without wasting a charge, and without the risk of any unwanted effects like from use-testing a Staff of Teleportation.

But talking of minor racial advantages, I think rune-based ID also opens up ways to give the races and classes some additional flavour by giving them inherent knowledge of one or two suitable runes: Half-Orcs and Half-Trolls might know Slay Orc and Slay Troll, Priests could recognise Blessed weapons, Paladins would know Slay Undead, etc.

[Nomad]

Amulets of Adornment are totally pointless now. Er, not that they ever weren't, but since they have no runes they're now auto-identified from the start, so there's no chance of the player ever being fooled into picking them up or wearing them.

[Derakon]

Amulets of Adornment are totally pointless now. Er, not that they ever weren't, but since they have no runes they're now auto-identified from the start, so there's no chance of the player ever being fooled into picking them up or wearing them.

We could give them the ignore-electricity rune.

[wobbly]

Could make them raise shop prices or be the 1st item thieves steal (not serious suggestions)

[Estie]

I have been playing more games (with deaths due to carelessness in lategame), and I end up with the house full of things that I (the player) know what they are but the game wont tell me.

For example: I found a scimitar that raised int. So I went to the trouble of carrying it around till I saw a suitable group of animals, proceeded to melee said animals till the "slay animal" rune was revealed, and now it is still not fully identified (it is of course of *slay animal*). Given that it is an ego type I couldnt care less about, I am just going to discard it since my house is already stuffed with other non-ided items.

Somehow it feels not satisfactory that the awesome runes I care about like speed auto identify almost from the start when I find the first -speed mixed blessing item, while a random low value rune like slow digestion gives me trouble.

Would it make the whole rune system superfluous if the bm bought all items with unknown runes, and selling would identify them ?

[PowerWyrm]

I have been playing more games (with deaths due to carelessness in lategame), and I end up with the house full of things that I (the player) know what they are but the game wont tell me.

For example: I found a scimitar that raised int. So I went to the trouble of carrying it around till I saw a suitable group of animals, proceeded to melee said animals till the "slay animal" rune was revealed, and now it is still not fully identified (it is of course of *slay animal*). Given that it is an ego type I couldnt care less about, I am just going to discard it since my house is already stuffed with other non-ided items.

Somehow it feels not satisfactory that the awesome runes I care about like speed auto identify almost from the start when I find the first -speed mixed blessing item, while a random low value rune like slow digestion gives me trouble.

Would it make the whole rune system superfluous if the bm bought all items with unknown runes, and selling would identify them ?

Unfortunately, you have to wield your *slay animal* for 3000 turns to identify slow digestion. So equip it, rest 3000 turns, and it should identify.

[Estie]

I found a turquoise ring(??), when worn, it said +3 to digging. Ok, thats a ring of digging.
When I recalled to town, I went to level 1 and started digging with the ring equipped to get it identified. 10 minutes in, half a screen worth of rock removed and activating it whenever the cd is off, and it still wont tell me. What do I need to do to have it identified ?

Edit: it doesnt say anything about unknown properties remaining, meaning that is is fully identified, just doesnt reveal its name, so its a bug ?

[Nick]

I found a turquoise ring(??), when worn, it said +3 to digging. Ok, thats a ring of digging.
When I recalled to town, I went to level 1 and started digging with the ring equipped to get it identified. 10 minutes in, half a screen worth of rock removed and activating it whenever the cd is off, and it still wont tell me. What do I need to do to have it identified ?

Edit: it doesnt say anything about unknown properties remaining, meaning that is is fully identified, just doesnt reveal its name, so its a bug ?

Same bug mentioned upthread that was making =Flames not identify - will be fixed in the next build.

[Nick]

Amulets of Adornment are totally pointless now. Er, not that they ever weren't, but since they have no runes they're now auto-identified from the start, so there's no chance of the player ever being fooled into picking them up or wearing them.

Their use now is restricted to:

1. Player sees unknown amulet
2. Player walks over to amulet to pick it up
3. Player sees it is junk, ignores it

[Nick]

It seems we have lost the special flavors that used to be reserved for certain artifacts. E.g., Narya which used to always be a "Ruby Ring", now is listed merely as a "Ring". Was this intentional?

I don't recall changing this - maybe it's been gone for a while?