Rune-based ID

[sandtrap]

After a few goes at contest 186

I definitely think rune based ID is the right change. Now the fun is getting it as good as possible.

Thanks for all the hard work!

[Nomad]

I think there might be an information leak when it comes to items with multiple stat boosts. I inspected a pair of randart gauntlets <+3> before wearing them, and the inspect screen showed both a +3 to speed (which I already knew the rune for) but also that they gave +3 to strength, which was a rune I hadn't encountered yet.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

It seems we have lost the special flavors that used to be reserved for certain artifacts....

I don't recall changing this - maybe it's been gone for a while?

Well, it's definite. This change was introduced with the RuneId branch. @ just used enlightenment and has become aware of a "Ring of Power". It's ring symbol "=" is nicely gold and ripe for the taking. But, we've lost that special flavor and jolt of excitement we used to have when we would see a "Plain Gold Ring".

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I've already reported this here with all the explanations to fix the problem: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthr...?t=7720&page=2

Don't you just hate it when a person brings up problems, but never offers solutions? I hate being that guy, but I don't know programming (apart from all the Basic, Fortran and Pascal from over **years ago that I've completely forgotten). Sadly, play testing and problems is the best I can offer. Thank goodness for PowerWyrm and Nick!

[Nick]

The interaction between the knowledge branch, destruction, and map area is slightly flawed.

When @ destructs an area and then uses map area to see the new configuration, the new map shown is in error. There are many places that show as rock but are actually open, and vice-versa. This causes problems when fighting Morgoth. For example: @ destructs area, casts or uses a scroll, staff, rod, Star, Arkenstone, or !Enlightenment to map the "new" area, and sets up as Morgoth approaches to be out of LOS. BUT, it turns out @ isn't out of LOS because the map shown isn't accurate!

I've already reported this here with all the explanations to fix the problem: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthr...?t=7720&page=2

Thank god for both of you

[PowerWyrm]

The interaction between the knowledge branch, destruction, and map area is slightly flawed.

When @ destructs an area and then uses map area to see the new configuration, the new map shown is in error. There are many places that show as rock but are actually open, and vice-versa. This causes problems when fighting Morgoth. For example: @ destructs area, casts or uses a scroll, staff, rod, Star, Arkenstone, or !Enlightenment to map the "new" area, and sets up as Morgoth approaches to be out of LOS. BUT, it turns out @ isn't out of LOS because the map shown isn't accurate!

I've already reported this here with all the explanations to fix the problem: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthr...?t=7720&page=2

[Nivra]

The thing is that the cases where you have to try unknown items multiple times are essentially what the id minigame actually is. If it is tedious and annoying then I'd say it should be improved or removed.

Most consumables appear in stacks now so I don't think there is all that much difference between devices and consumables with regard to id. I think some UI improvements telling you what you've tested for might help somewhat.

I think part of the problem was touched on earlier in that there is too much rubbish in the game which makes the whole id game boring and time consuming. Identifying is fun when you have to make an effort to identify something and then you can go on and use it immediately which rarely happens.

Take the potions of resist heat and cold. They turn up on the first few levels, they are identified by just quaffing them so there's no gameplay involved there. And then there's absolutely nothing to use them on at all until much much later on in the game. In fact I never use them for any sort of character ever. Casters and priests get resist fire and cold and warriors either avoid big breathers or wait until they get the immunity to take them on. Identifying them early is completely trivial, gives the player no gameplay benefit for ages and you won't even hold on to them for that long even if you plan on using them later anyway.

So to improve these it would be fun to have things which burn early on that you can test the potions with to id them and then some early breathers with low HP/melee or higher HP with fire melee that you can kill once you've identified them giving the player an incentive to go that extra mile to bother to id them. Or maybe add other ways to id stuff like testing objects on each other, a wand of fire bolts on a shield for example or even yourself to id everything you're wielding and any potions you've quaffed.

At the moment whenever I see an unidentified item I assume it's just junk because 90% of the time it is, but of course you have to trudge through identifying it all because eventually something half decent will turn up. I think the id minigame could be great fun, but the game really needs to be designed and balanced with it in mind to avoid it becoming trivial and boring.

That still wouldn't change the fact that they never get used. How about having them change the %chance of inventory/equipment damage? Perhaps similar to damage reduction, make it 1/3rd of the base chance. So immunity prevents all damage, but temporary resistance is a great way for a warrior to decide to take on a family of white dragons without worrying that he'll lose his whole stack of !ccw.

[Pete Mack]

In fact, how about a Quickband competition? It's a really good way to see what you can do with the early levels.
Known bugs:
(Windows) Does not exit cleanly after ctl-x exit. (Leaves zombie process.)
Superb stealth shows as red
Rare crash when shooting ammo out of the pack rather than the quiver
Nuisance:
No ID on use, and no inscriptions on flavors
No starting ?Recall
No starting sling for Rogue/Brigand

[Pete Mack]

Still not worth it. Red worms already exist and they are no real threat. Make Giant Salamander have more HP, but keep AC low. That would do it.
Edit:
Quickband has a lot of other good ideas for beefing up the early levels, not just compressing levels 1-20. There are more dangerous monsters fairly early too, like gnomes with a powerful lighting attack, and much smarter behavior of breathers and casters. Unfortunately, the only way to do this well is with monster mana, which is a big change.

Not breathers. But instead a slow moving monster with a fire based melee attack. Or something like an optional room with ambient heat where you need !rfire to get through it without taking fatal damage. The goal is to provide a use not a necessity. And I'd much rather not have the "it breathes, you die" on level 1-5.

[bio_hazard]

Lava-moated mini-vault?

+1. Not expecting this in 4.1 but eventually would be great to see terrain that requires tactical use of resistances, speed, rFear, rConf, etc...

[Ingwe Ingweron]

The interaction between the knowledge branch, destruction, and map area is slightly flawed.

When @ destructs an area and then uses map area to see the new configuration, the new map shown is in error. There are many places that show as rock but are actually open, and vice-versa. This causes problems when fighting Morgoth. For example: @ destructs area, casts or uses a scroll, staff, rod, Star, Arkenstone, or !Enlightenment to map the "new" area, and sets up as Morgoth approaches to be out of LOS. BUT, it turns out @ isn't out of LOS because the map shown isn't accurate!

[Carnivean]

Or something like an optional room with ambient heat where you need !rfire to get through it without taking fatal damage.

Lava-moated mini-vault?

[fizzix]

Well, !rFire and such are useful in Quickband a lot earlier. If I fnd it early, I will carry it so I can kill baby dragons at cl3. The thing to do isn't to get rid of !rHeat. It's to make sufficiently dangerous monsters show up early enough that the potions are actually useful. Set skip-level to 3 and you are all set, or reduce native depth of some breathers.

Not breathers. But instead a slow moving monster with a fire based melee attack. Or something like an optional room with ambient heat where you need !rfire to get through it without taking fatal damage. The goal is to provide a use not a necessity. And I'd much rather not have the "it breathes, you die" on level 1-5.

[Pete Mack]

Well, !rFire and such are useful in Quickband a lot earlier. If I fnd it early, I will carry it so I can kill baby dragons at cl3. The thing to do isn't to get rid of !rHeat. It's to make sufficiently dangerous monsters show up early enough that the potions are actually useful. Set skip-level to 3 and you are all set, or reduce native depth of some breathers.

[Nomad]

Sustains are a massive pain to find a way to ID by use, and hold up full identification of items that are obvious to an experienced player (e.g. Amulet of Wisdom). Could they be made apparent on wielding, or perhaps somehow bundled in with the appropriate stat so that learning the rune for Wisdom allows you to recognise Sustain Wisdom too?