3.0.9b initial questions

[takkaria]

I've taken AJPS's outlined Mr. Att that he added to ticket #85, used GIMP to fill with 1% opaque black inside the @, and made new MacOS icons. See the ticket.

You can replace your existing icons at either Angband.app/Contents/Resources/Angband.icns or trunk/src/osx/Angband.icns (and recompile). Hopefully someone with SVN access will approve and update the nightlies.

Kevin

Committed, revision 884. Thanks!

[roustk]

I think that one works for me, especially if combined with roustk's trick for a larger clickable target.

I've taken AJPS's outlined Mr. Att that he added to ticket #85, used GIMP to fill with 1% opaque black inside the @, and made new MacOS icons. See the ticket.

You can replace your existing icons at either Angband.app/Contents/Resources/Angband.icns or trunk/src/osx/Angband.icns (and recompile). Hopefully someone with SVN access will approve and update the nightlies.

Kevin

[zaimoni]

You've probably thought about this, but you could add a language field to the monster data files, with some monsters speaking multiple languages just like having multiple resistances. And communications in each language could be represented by different noise types, so that the player would perceive that the monsters were talking to one another but wouldn't know exactly what they were telling each other, e.g. Canine/Hound speakers would "growl" and "howl", Kobold/Orc/Ogre/Troll (i.e. "cave dwellers") speakers would "grunt" or the player would "hear guttural noises", Dragons would "hiss" or "roar", Undead would "gibber" and "wail", etc.

The current monster cries classification is based on display character as an index to "general type". It works well enough to have prevented a number of monster racial property flags from making it into V.

It occurs to me as well that monsters learning from their mistakes and remembering player resistances were game-play or birth options. Perhaps those options ought to be consolidated into a single "monsters communicate with each other intelligently" option?

At such time as monster communication goes into Zaiband, it's not going to be optional for waking up. Resistance communication will be controlled by the ai options. Communication may, however, enable ditching the cheating ai telepathy for player resistances. This would be good (as I don't like cheating ai).

[zaimoni]

Or you could just have a flag that allows a monster to "sound the alarm", and different monsters give different messages when sounding the alarm, sort of like different monsters give different pain messages. So you get all the flavor but you wouldn't end up with weirdness like an orc yelling and a dragon not waking up.

Or a flag "has sounded the alarm" (although ideally, a "wake up" should preclude all "resistance communication").

[Djabanete]

Or you could just have a flag that allows a monster to "sound the alarm", and different monsters give different messages when sounding the alarm, sort of like different monsters give different pain messages. So you get all the flavor but you wouldn't end up with weirdness like an orc yelling and a dragon not waking up.

[pesachyonah]

I thought about the resistance communication, but wasn't able to decide at the time which monsters could communicate with whom.

You've probably thought about this, but you could add a language field to the monster data files, with some monsters speaking multiple languages just like having multiple resistances. And communications in each language could be represented by different noise types, so that the player would perceive that the monsters were talking to one another but wouldn't know exactly what they were telling each other, e.g. Canine/Hound speakers would "growl" and "howl", Kobold/Orc/Ogre/Troll (i.e. "cave dwellers") speakers would "grunt" or the player would "hear guttural noises", Dragons would "hiss" or "roar", Undead would "gibber" and "wail", etc.

It occurs to me as well that monsters learning from their mistakes and remembering player resistances were game-play or birth options. Perhaps those options ought to be consolidated into a single "monsters communicate with each other intelligently" option?

[Big Al]

Looks perfect, thanks!

And yes, I've seen the Mr. Att originals before - I like them.

[Lebannen]

I think that one works for me, especially if combined with roustk's trick for a larger clickable target.

I like the "cartoons" (and have never seen them before) - I think small versions in the vein of the armour ones would be great for spicing up the Help 2.0 once it becomes available!

[ajps]

This was almost exactly what I was going to write before I saw that you wrote it...

PS. Where did Mr. Att get his name from?

Well, here's the not-wholly white outlined version:



I didn't include it because I thought it looked rather unbalanced on a dark background, particularly where the legs join the shoes. Looking now, I think I was maybe being over fusssy. The simplicity of the outline probably makes up for it anyway.

As for the name, he's always been called Mr Att - I think the name even came before the drawings. Have you seen the original Mr Att "cartoons"? I can't remember if I've ever plugged them on the forums: http://ajps.mine.nu/angband/mratt/

[zaimoni]

FYI: Unangband already has this, as well as the ability for certain monsters to talk to each other. So, if eg. a monster tries to paralyze you and you resist, he'll say something along the lines of "Alex resists paralyzation." to all the other monsters in the area. Then they'll all know not to waste their mana trying to paralyze you. If you attack one member of a pack, they'll say "Alex has attacked me" and wake everyone else up.

I already lifted the pack part from Unangband into Zaiband. (More precisely, I was taking notes when UnAndrew was reviewing Unangband's AI on Usenet.)

I thought about the resistance communication, but wasn't able to decide at the time which monsters could communicate with whom.

[Big Al]

Monsters shouting to wake up sleeping monsters is more elegant, though.

FYI: Unangband already has this, as well as the ability for certain monsters to talk to each other. So, if eg. a monster tries to paralyze you and you resist, he'll say something along the lines of "Alex resists paralyzation." to all the other monsters in the area. Then they'll all know not to waste their mana trying to paralyze you. If you attack one member of a pack, they'll say "Alex has attacked me" and wake everyone else up.

Of your options, I like the fourth column best. I don't however think the additional white border is needed around the armour, as that's already two-tone - perhaps just make Mr Att (and his legs!) glow?

This was almost exactly what I was going to write before I saw that you wrote it...

PS. Where did Mr. Att get his name from?

[Lebannen]

Monsters shouting to wake up sleeping monsters is more elegant, though.

Mmm, I like this - it also makes more sense, and makes packs far more dangerous to stealthy players.

[Lebannen]

Well, I've got a few variations on trying to make it show up better, against an off-white, a photographic, and an off-black background. The problem with a thin white border around the black is that it tends to look quite jagged at small sizes, but anyway - any thoughts?

<snip>

(Note that these are all from the SVG source rendered in Inkscape against the various backgrounds, so anti-aliasing, etc, might be done better or worse with other tools)

Of your options, I like the fourth column best. I don't however think the additional white border is needed around the armour, as that's already two-tone - perhaps just make Mr Att (and his legs!) glow?

Full transparency is supported for OS X icons, so could easily make it a magical-looking glow, or fire brand appearance, or...

[zaimoni]

idle thought:
Even though monsters shooting other monsters is dumb, I always liked the fact that a monster would shoot a sleeping monster to wake it up.

As a mage player, it makes fighting packs of certain monsters tougher as it's harder to sleep & run.

- Frank

Monsters shouting to wake up sleeping monsters is more elegant, though.

[ChodTheWacko]

That much is now done. I'm still digesting the rest of your post (and code).

idle thought:
Even though monsters shooting other monsters is dumb, I always liked the fact that a monster would shoot a sleeping monster to wake it up.

As a mage player, it makes fighting packs of certain monsters tougher as it's harder to sleep & run.

- Frank