4.1 feature branches

[Nick]

There are many planned gameplay changes for 4.1, which we're planning to implement (mostly) one at a time. This will be done in feature branches - branches off the codebase which just implement the intended feature.

It seems like a good idea to make these branches available to the adventurous, so they can be tested by a wider audience than the devteam for bugs, balance and a general sense of whether they are improving the game. We're not quite clear yet on how best to make them available, but for now this thread will do.

The first one changes monster breaths from being just like a ball spell to being a cone-shaped spray emanating from the monster. This results in the player only getting the full blast when very close to the monster - this is broadly a nerf to monster power, but does bring in new tactical considerations. There is also a change to force breath, so rather than just being a clone of plasma it pushes the player and other monsters away from the breather.

The source code for this branch is here on Github, and there are also Windows and OS X builds. All opinions welcome.

[Carnivean]

The first one changes monster breaths from being just like a ball spell to being a cone-shaped spray emanating from the monster.

How are monster friendly fire situations handled?

[Nick]

How are monster friendly fire situations handled?

Basically the same as currently - the breath is aimed at the player, but if a monster is in the way they get hit too. The other difference is that ball-breaths currently go over all monsters and explode on the player, whereas cones just spray out and collect everything in the zone.

[fph]

This is probably going to need a rebalance between melee and ranged attacks. The constant risk of getting hit by a train strongly discourages melee. Giving warriors tons of hp to compensate would result in disqualifying melee as an option for rogues and priests.

Anyway, don't flag this down as a negative comment. It's a path worth trying. I believe that the only game that does not change is a dead game.

[AnonymousHero]

There are many planned gameplay changes for 4.1, which we're planning to implement (mostly) one at a time. This will be done in feature branches - branches off the codebase which just implement the intended feature.

It seems like a good idea to make these branches available to the adventurous, so they can be tested by a wider audience than the devteam for bugs, balance and a general sense of whether they are improving the game. We're not quite clear yet on how best to make them available, but for now this thread will do.

One way to bring some extra visibility might be to just have a "permanent" pull request marked "[FEATURE REVIEW] blah blah" or some such "tethered to the branch", i.e. you just push whatever you want and keep the pull request continually open until it's been merged. (I would also suggest allowing for "force pushes" to feature branches to allow for commit history cleanup. GitHub seems to handle this OK -- the pull req just gets a new set of commits.)

Thus the pull req for the feature becomes the "go here to see the current state" regardless of what feature it is.

WDYT?

(Aside: I am not a fan of using "/" in branch names (like feature/foo) because it can be very confusing in some instances when using the git command line: There are cases where "origin/foo" means "the branch 'foo' in repository 'origin'" and some where it means "the branch 'origin/foo'". This is needlessly confusing: Just use a descriptive name for the branch and delete it when gets merged. Simple! If you really insist on a prefix for all feature branches I would suggest using a dash.)

[Antoine]

This is probably going to need a rebalance between melee and ranged attacks. The constant risk of getting hit by a train strongly discourages melee. Giving warriors tons of hp to compensate would result in disqualifying melee as an option for rogues and priests.

Easiest fix might be to increase the probability that a monster chooses to breathe (rather than move or cast a spell) if it is not next to the @?

A.

[TJS]

Great job.

Is it too late to talk about what the gameplay changes are going to be?

[Derakon]

Great job.

Is it too late to talk about what the gameplay changes are going to be?

Nick linked them in the first post.

[TJS]

Nick linked them in the first post.

Sure, I was just wondering because no one has added to the thread in a while whether it was all done and dusted or whether stuff is up in the air still.

[fizzix]

The first one changes monster breaths from being just like a ball spell to being a cone-shaped spray emanating from the monster. This results in the player only getting the full blast when very close to the monster - this is broadly a nerf to monster power, but does bring in new tactical considerations. There is also a change to force breath, so rather than just being a clone of plasma it pushes the player and other monsters away from the breather.

It's a pretty big nerf, but I think it's a good one, because it will allow us to do stuff with limiting teleport other options.

I think we might want some monster AI that makes monsters disfavor breaths when they'll catch allies in blast, but we'll see.

[Derakon]

I think we might want some monster AI that makes monsters disfavor breaths when they'll catch allies in blast, but we'll see.

Only if they'd deal a lot of damage to their buddies and hardly any to the player, IMO. Morgoth's minions should not be very bright.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Only if they'd deal a lot of damage to their buddies and hardly any to the player, IMO. Morgoth's minions should not be very bright.

And the ones that are bright couldn't care less about "collateral damage". The orcs fled from the Balrog of Moria for good reason....

[Nick]

Sure, I was just wondering because no one has added to the thread in a while whether it was all done and dusted or whether stuff is up in the air still.

My attitude is that everything is always up in the air. In particular, if there's anything that you think is a silly idea, you should argue against it.

[MattB]

Only if they'd deal a lot of damage to their buddies and hardly any to the player, IMO.

But given the disparity between @ HP and monster HP, that should hardly ever be an issue. If it's a significant enough ally to seriously inconvenience @, then it will probably shrug off a breath attack that will flatten @.

(Unless it's a Magic Mushroom Patch. I hate those bastards.)

[mushroom patch]

I don't know, guys. In a single player game with no persistent clouds, etc., the only difference the area of effect makes is friendly fire (which is good for the player) and floor item destruction (which doesn't matter if you know what you're doing).

What's the goal of this change? Are you trying to make instant kills less common? The problem there is that you're introducing complicated damage mechanics where someone who gets hit at range a few times without dying gets the idea that the breath weapons from an 11-headed hydra or w/e aren't going to kill him, until he gets close and they do. Maybe he gets the idea, but mostly likely not, imo. You'd probably have to source dive to actually understand how the damage works, a significant step backwards from the way it is now.

Sounds like it is a buff to ranged attacks relative to melee, which probably isn't needed, but at least there's some tactical depth there if range matters for monsters. Angband combat could definitely use more tactical depth.