Morality/Alignment and Town Violence

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I would argue that you ultimately become evil itself, once you kill Morgoth at the end of the game. I base this on the assumption that your character would be unable to resist putting on Morgoth's crown. Or, maybe it would be easier to put it to a vote, but, who has been able to *not* put on Morgoth's crown the first time they killed Morgoth?

I tend to only wield the Massive Iron Crown if it will give @ perfect resistance combined with everything else @ is wearing (this necessitates having an off-head stunning protection in addition to a few other resistance holes). Usually, I just do a file dump the moment Morgoth is dead.

[MattB]

I would argue that you ultimately become evil itself, once you kill Morgoth at the end of the game. I base this on the assumption that your character would be unable to resist putting on Morgoth's crown. Or, maybe it would be easier to put it to a vote, but, who has been able to *not* put on Morgoth's crown the first time they killed Morgoth?

I actually consider putting the crown on to be the victory goal, rather than killing Morgoth per se.
But maybe that's just me.

[Rowan]

As of 4.0 it really doesn't matter anymore- since Sanctuary got nerfed, there's almost no way to walk around the town without getting swarmed and having to kill someone.

[Grotug]

I have beaten Morgoth by cheating (force quit about 20-30 times XD) and since I had cold immunity ring on I didn't detect any negative effect to putting the crown on, and it solved the last missing resistance. I felt a little wretched putting it on, tho.

My suggestion: make Angband townsfolk like other roguelike townsfolk. Never hostile under normal circumstances, don't stop "running." If you want the town to be a potential threat to really low-level players, add a few unique townsfolk who spawn fairly often until you kill them, like Bill Ferny or the town bully or something.

Brilliant! Bill Ferny seems like a no brainer addition to the townsfolk, would be a perfect unique.

[Philip]

Bill Ferny actually already exists in O - you may know him from FA as the complainer. He's really annoying, but doesn't actually hurt you. It would probably be more interesting if he did.

[bio_hazard]

Town people should beat you up but not kill you. If one takes you below X% HP, you get knocked out, and they take some cash and maybe something from your inventory.

[caruso]

In a world as harsh as in Angband and variants I could imagine that nobody cares if one murders socially underprivileged townsfolk. Still, when I'm playing a good character, I'd like to be able to evade townspeople without having to kill them. Perhaps limit the number of townspeople to 7 per visit to the town?

About town guards, in BOSS (a variant of Moria) they really appear when you attack helpless townsfolk. Unfortunately, I did not play BOSS for long enough to tell how this affects gameplay. Not that I did not like the game, only there's too many interesting games out there.

[luneya]

I would argue that you ultimately become evil itself, once you kill Morgoth at the end of the game. I base this on the assumption that your character would be unable to resist putting on Morgoth's crown. Or, maybe it would be easier to put it to a vote, but, who has been able to *not* put on Morgoth's crown the first time they killed Morgoth?

But Morgoth's crown isn't an intrinsically-evil item. It's a display piece that he made to show off the Silmarils that he stole from the forces of good. It is thus perfectly proper for the hero to loot the crown from Morgoth's corpse. Ideally, the player character should just strip the Silmarils off and discard the rest of the material--perhaps this could be represented by replacing the crown with an artifact that uses the light-source slot.

[HallucinationMushroom]

But Morgoth's crown isn't an intrinsically-evil item. It's a display piece that he made to show off the Silmarils that he stole from the forces of good. It is thus perfectly proper for the hero to loot the crown from Morgoth's corpse. Ideally, the player character should just strip the Silmarils off and discard the rest of the material--perhaps this could be represented by replacing the crown with an artifact that uses the light-source slot.

In Sil, this is pretty much what happens. You cut the Silmarils out and can use them as a light source on your way out.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

But Morgoth's crown isn't an intrinsically-evil item. It's a display piece that he made to show off the Silmarils that he stole from the forces of good. It is thus perfectly proper for the hero to loot the crown from Morgoth's corpse. Ideally, the player character should just strip the Silmarils off and discard the rest of the material--perhaps this could be represented by replacing the crown with an artifact that uses the light-source slot.

But, like the Palantiri captured by evil Dark Lords, either Morgoth or Sauron, I imagine the Similarils were corrupted and it would take an individual of supreme fortitude of character to wrest them from their evil control. Saruman was lacking of that strength and was corrupted. Aragorn, on the other hand, did dare the Palantir of Orthanc and managed to wrest it from Sauron's control.

Personally, my @'s only don the crown in two cases, they either have wielded The One Ring and are making their journey to the dark-side complete, or they have found an off-head rStun and wearing the crown completes their resistance to give perfect coverage and fully maxed stats. Then again, I always immediately retire thereafter.

[Derakon]

But, like the Palantiri captured by evil Dark Lords, either Morgoth or Sauron, I imagine the Similarils were corrupted and it would take an individual of supreme fortitude of character to wrest them from their evil control. Saruman was lacking of that strength and was corrupted. Aragorn, on the other hand, did dare the Palantir of Orthanc and managed to wrest it from Sauron's control.

Morgoth is described as eternally tormented by the light of the Silmarils; they burn him, but he can't bring himself to stop displaying his trophy. So it's not at all clear that they've become corrupted. So far as I'm aware (not that I'm a Tolkein lore sage), the Silmaril that Beren stole was still perfectly normal, for a Silmaril anyway.

[fph]

I'm the same way, and I bet most people are. So, why are there townsfolk at all?

They're basically never a significant gameplay consideration. (Right?) So the only justification of their existence is flavor. But since they only exist to be killed to save keystrokes, they're don't really add flavor and probably detract it.

Another role they have is discouraging town-scumming by making it slightly more tedious. But, I agree, it is a minor point.

[Timo Pietilä]

But Morgoth's crown isn't an intrinsically-evil item. It's a display piece that he made to show off the Silmarils that he stole from the forces of good.

IIRC Silmarils were cursed by Valar. Using the crown then would be a bad thing.

[Nick]

But, like the Palantiri captured by evil Dark Lords, either Morgoth or Sauron, I imagine the Similarils were corrupted and it would take an individual of supreme fortitude of character to wrest them from their evil control.

Kind of the opposite, really. Beren's silmaril was passed down his family, then finally carried by Earendil, with no ill effects apart from attracting the sons of Feanor (who had sworn an oath to recover the silmarils from anyone else). Once the remaining two silmarils were recaptured, and Maedhros and Maglor (the two remaining sons of Feanor) stole them, they were unable to hold them because they (M+M) had forfeited their right by their misdeeds. So the silmarils (which had been hallowed by the Valar) would hurt the already corrupt, rather than corrupt the good - which is probably bad news for a murderer on the scale of a winning Angband character

[Derakon]

Kind of the opposite, really. Beren's silmaril was passed down his family, then finally carried by Earendil, with no ill effects apart from attracting the sons of Feanor (who had sworn an oath to recover the silmarils from anyone else). Once the remaining two silmarils were recaptured, and Maedhros and Maglor (the two remaining sons of Feanor) stole them, they were unable to hold them because they (M+M) had forfeited their right by their misdeeds. So the silmarils (which had been hallowed by the Valar) would hurt the already corrupt, rather than corrupt the good - which is probably bad news for a murderer on the scale of a winning Angband character

CONGRATULATIONS! You have won the game! You may retire (commit suicide) when ready.
You see a Massive Iron Crown [0].
You have The Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth [0] {terrible}.
Really wear The Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth {terrible}? y
The Silmarils smite you for your arrogance! -more-
You have died.