No-sell

[emulord]

I meant selling should be on.

People are discussing "gameplay depth", having to sell consumables/swaps to buy a rare amazing item from the shops is a fun experience. One that is missed from nosell.

On the other hand, people like being able to casually use wands and staves that would normally be vendor trash. How about the costs of these things are reduced, gold piles SLIGHTLY increased from default selling game, and that way we have a situation where you only sell once in a while. Typically to refill consumables, or to sell a large number of excellents.
Going to town gives a good resting point for taking a break, another added benefit. (Remember to eat!)

[DaviddesJ]

Is there a legitimate point being made that the gold multiplier in "no-sell" is too high? Or is that wrong?

It just doesn't matter much what the multiplier is. Winning or losing at Angband doesn't depend on how much money you have. Never has. There's always going to be an irreconcilable conflict between those who like dragging stuff back to town because it feels they have "earned" their money, and those who see it as tedious. The fact that the only people complaining about it are those who don't want to use the option in the first place illustrates how tweaking the details isn't really going to solve anything.

[DaviddesJ]

People are discussing "gameplay depth", having to sell consumables/swaps to buy a rare amazing item from the shops is a fun experience. One that is missed from nosell.

It's fun for some people. That's why they have selling on and others don't. Personally, I never found it interesting at all. If I can't afford something, well I don't really care, eventually I'll find better stuff anyway.

[Djabanete]

May the fleas of a 1000 orcs molest this thread.

Once again, I bow before the genius of HallucinationMushroom.

[Magnate]

It's certainly a possibility. I don't know what analysis went into selecting the current multiplier, but there's a number of ways that it could be subtly wrong and/or misinterpreted. No-sell players don't go to town as often, for example, which means that, all else being equal, they'll have more money because they have fewer opportunities to spend it.

I'm happy to reassure people that the gold multiplier in no_selling has the Stamp of Eddie. I set it, he complained and offered alternatives, he and I had a vigorous public debate, and we ended up with something that looked a lot like his preference. As with so many features of Angband 3.x, in fact.

[Nick]

May the fleas of a 1000 orcs molest this thread.

Funded, and halfway to the first stretch goal.

[eMeM]

Feel free to critique other peoples' efforts in a constructive fashion. Feel free to disagree with them. Stop telling them that they can't take photographs.

Did I choose wrong forum to say I'm not happy with current Angband development? Only positive feedback allowed? Maybe I should ask you first if I can have different view.

Again I question developers: Why didn't you leave Angband when announcing Pyrel? What are you going to do with Angband when Pyrel hits first stable version? Obviously you can't have both. Don't you think it would benefit Angband and Pyrel too if you stopped maintaining Angband?

[Nick]

go home n00bs L2maintain

[debo]

What is with the old fart brigade stampeding into this forum all of a sudden? Or does this happen all the time and I somehow remained blissfully unaware of it?

[Timo Pietilä]

What is with the old fart brigade stampeding into this forum all of a sudden? Or does this happen all the time and I somehow remained blissfully unaware of it?

Hey, I'm one of the ancient ones, and I don't like to be called an old fart.

Seriously thinking only one having trouble here is eMeM. Everybody else just tried to reason with him, and got tired.

[Patashu]

Angband having no selling on by default seems to be following in Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup's footsteps (which also has shops you cannot sell to, I can't remember if it was ever not the case in fact)

[debo]

Hey, I'm one of the ancient ones, and I don't like to be called an old fart.

Seriously thinking only one having trouble here is eMeM. Everybody else just tried to reason with him, and got tired.

'Old fart' is mostly a matter of temperament -- and there was that recent thread on monster memory that was also terrible.

[Nick]

What is with the old fart brigade stampeding into this forum all of a sudden? Or does this happen all the time and I somehow remained blissfully unaware of it?

No, there have definitely been more tantrums lately. Mostly taking the form

1. Someone should fix x (where x is some fairly minor issue or issues) and
2. I'm certainly not going to but
3. I am going to keep complaining and arguing because
4. That is surely the best way to make people who are freely giving their time to this free project that I am using free of charge go and spend some more time making it exactly the way I want it *waah waah* (throws squeaky toy at maintainer)

Actually, I'm starting to see the appeal of this approach

[Magnate]

No, there have definitely been more tantrums lately.

My observation would be that the number of tantrums hasn't changed much over the past 3-4 years, but the devteam response has. Each of us has tried, on several occasions, to engage in various issues and debate them constructively. One by one we've given up as it consumed more time than we had available for Angband, and we found ourselves doing more arguing than coding/fixing. Some of us have come back and had another go, but the end result is the same.

So now there are no devs putting their heads above the parapet, and the tantrums just result in people arguing with each other.

It does strike me as ironic that the two most recent ones have both been about options which already exist.

[debo]

So now there are no devs putting their heads above the parapet, and the tantrums just result in people arguing with each other.

I knew it! Devs aren't people!