A Few Questions/Observations From an Old Player

[Derakon]

Oh, what I missed was the templating. I keep forgetting that it's not enough to just check monster.txt any more; you also have to check monster_base.txt. You're right, Huan and Carcharoth are both animals.

If you're only going to carry one, I'd say make it the scythe. Even if you decide to use Thunderfist instead (I don't think there's any argument for using the BoC), you should store the Scythe in your home, since it'll be quite effective against Sauron.

[Oramin]

Do any of the Major Demon types resist Acid other than the Bile Demon? The BoC is handy for chopping up Lesser Balrogs.

[scud]

Do any of the Major Demon types resist Acid other than the Bile Demon?

Osyluths and, more scarily, Horned Reapers. Have got no idea of the numbers/reality behind it, but my 'gut observation' is that Horned Reapers will get through AC <150ish much more readily – or at least noticeably, given their high damage – than pretty much any other melee-monster. Kill them. Kill them quickly.

That's 3.3.2, at least.

[Oramin]

Horned Reapers resist Acid, Lightning, Fire, Cold, and Poison (same with Osyluths) so there would be no reason to prefer any of those 3 swap weapons over Aglarang.

Besides, Horned Reapers generally just aren't worth the hassle of killing. With a single one I use a Teleport Away wand. With several, I Banish or Destruct.

[scud]

Horned Reapers resist Acid, Lightning, Fire, Cold, and Poison

Resilient buggers, aye.

Horned Reapers generally just aren't worth the hassle of killing.

Oooh, I'm very partial to a bit of controlled U-slaying when I'm suitably dug in. I'm very confrontational! The only pit thing I think twice about is that pesky Black Reaver.

[academic.sam]

I've also started playing Angband after a very long time (started with 2.8.3 I think). I'd like to add my observations as well. As a player, kudos to all developers who kept Angband going. I'm again enjoying this.

First the good stuff:
I like all the interface enhancements. Pickup items already in my inventory is very nice. Going to where mouse is clicked is very nice. Indicating detect ranges is very nice (however, I like NPP implementation of this better). Changes to ID are very nice. Really liking it.

2. Is it my imagination or has the number of item slots in the house gone down drastically? As I recall, there used to be two screens, now there's only one. Last version I played prior to 3.3.2 was around 2005 so it has been awhile.

Totally agree on this. Inventory management has a tactical aspect. However, managing house really adds nothing and severely limits the choice. As others said, it forces similar endgame kits for most.

While reducing junk is a welcome addition, it has brought a severe lack of good items at early levels. Had a level 30 Gnome mage at 3200' still looking for decent items. Couldn't find !con or !int and only had 127 HP. Succumbed to a swarm of impact hounds because of one wrong move.

I feel the game has gone a bit too far in that regard and now caters for expert players rather than the casual players. While diving may be a preferred option among veterans, it shouldn't be at the expense of slow players.

I take pleasure in clearing a level and knowing I can take all comers in a given level. If I see a monster, I want to be able to kill it. That makes me a very slow player. So, I've never won. That's OK. But, I've enjoyed it.

Not having essential items in store is a bit of a let down. I guess I've gotten used to NPP.

Anyway, I'm back to enjoying this great game.

Regards
Sam

[Magnate]

I've also started playing Angband after a very long time (started with 2.8.3 I think). I'd like to add my observations as well. As a player, kudos to all developers who kept Angband going. I'm again enjoying this.

Welcome back.

I feel the game has gone a bit too far in that regard and now caters for expert players rather than the casual players. While diving may be a preferred option among veterans, it shouldn't be at the expense of slow players.

I agree with what I think you mean, which isn't quite what you wrote.

The game always favours slow players, because they will eventually find better stuff (per unit depth) than faster players - more kills, more items, eventually a lucky drop.

What I think you meant is that this takes longer than it used to, because the number and frequency of good drops has done down a lot. This is almost certainly true, as you've missed three or four years of arguments about the game being too easy / drops being too generous (from 3.1.0 up to 3.3.2). So the drops were nerfed in the 3.4 series and long-time players think we're now back to roughly 3.0.x drops. Interesting that your perception is that it is meaner than 2.8.x

We do have plans to backport the stats module to test out the different generosities between versions, but currently it only works for the 3.3 and 3.4 series.

[Philip]

The game hasn't changed much in respect to reward for slow and for fast playing. Fast playing has just gotten a lot more popular.

[Oramin]

3.3.2 seems fairly well balanced to me (no, I haven't upgraded). If I make a significant mistake, I pay for it. As long as I'm careful, I have a pretty good shot at winning (my Paladin is about due to win the game in addition to the others).


May I suggest that you stick at L30 depth until you've managed to max out your stats instead of looking for stat potions down on L64? Slow and steady wins the game.

[Derakon]

One thing to keep in mind is that back in the old days, there was a whole lot of nothing in the dungeon -- basically nothing new was added between around 3500' and 5000' except for a few more unique monsters. More recent versions have "stretched" the dungeon a bit more to fill in the gap by moving some early stuff (especially loot like stat gain potions) deeper.

I do kind of feel like the modern game is less generous than it used to be, but frankly my memories of 2.4 frog-knows are not to be trusted. We always remember the outliers, not the normal games. Though I will certainly grant that it used to be a lot more possible to get amazing early drops than it is these days.

[Oramin]

My memory is that 3.3.2 is easier than the earlier versions I played but I agree with you on the untrustworthiness of those memories.

(As an example, I remember that I used to consider the Necklace of the Dwarves to be amazing; now I typically just discard it. Maybe the stats have changed or maybe the other options are just better.)

[fph]

One thing to keep in mind is that back in the old days, there was a whole lot of nothing in the dungeon -- basically nothing new was added between around 3500' and 5000' except for a few more unique monsters. More recent versions have "stretched" the dungeon a bit more to fill in the gap by moving some early stuff (especially loot like stat gain potions) deeper.

As a result, I am afraid that now there is more nothingness before that depth.

How would people feel about a reduction of the number of dungeon levels in Angband, say, from 100 to 50? My arguments are:

* reduces a lot the problem that you raised, that there are intervals of the dungeon filled with "a whole lot of nothing new" except for some extra uniques.
* people dive a lot anyways these days; they do not really explore 100 different levels. The limiting factor is gathering XP and gear, not finding staircases down. The number of dungeon levels is just artificial and does not affect gameplay much.
* this reduces the boredom of having to find staircases down in levels that we just don't want to explore. Finding staircases is just a boring mini-game for divers.
* this would encourage newcomers to dive more, which is now considered to be the best strategy. The rule of thumb dlvl == clvl is a strong psychological barrier to diving. Even if they haven't read any spoilers, they might "naturally" assume that this is the way it's meant to be.
* halving the number of dlvls would result in an easier dlvl-to-feet conversions: dlvl 37 == 3700'. No more annoying factors 2. Simple and elegant. The old depth thresholds would remain unchanged (e.g., Morgoth stays at 5000', drolems appear around 2000')
* this change won't require any rebalancing; just divide all native depths by 2.

[Mondkalb]

I am also perceiving a bit of boredom while beginning new games. It always takes ages to get at least some decent equiment. Quite tedious sometimes though I have changed my playstyle and am diving like crazy nowadays. ^^

[Oramin]

"No" to reducing the levels. If people are bored then they're welcome to dive faster. If they can't find the stairs quickly then they're bloody incompetent.

The "best" strategy is the one that works for you while having fun. I'm having fun going at a steady pace and actually *winning* the game. If, as a newcomer, I felt I basically had to constantly commit suicide because the game designers thought it would be good for me and build character then I would have stopped.

In other words, don't try to shove your "best" strategy down other people's throats.

Also, from a historical perspective, Moria had 50 levels, Angband should have 100.

[Mondkalb]

Still, the missing of any slightly good stuff before 2000 is driving me crazy. It is like work to get there and very little fun.

All the ego type items are junk now, because when I finally starting to find them, I usually have artifacts in loads. Weapons of Westernesse or blessed weapons used to show up early enough to be useful. I can't even remember when I used some of those, must be ages ago.