New nightly

[Derakon]

Level feelings are determined by the "rating" value of the cave object, which is increased by the following:

* 5 + .1 * native level for pits and nests
* A per-vault modifier defined in vault.txt
* For OOD monsters, 2x the level of OODness if unique, 1x otherwise
* A per-ego modifier defined in ego.txt (for footwear of Speed, this is 25)
* 30 + (power level) / 25 for artifacts
* (power level) / 15 for all items (presumably this is zero for most)
* For OOD nonmagical items, 1x the level of OODness

calculate_feeling() in generate.c determines the actual feeling received. If the rating is:

> 50 + dlvl  => superb feeling
> 40 + .8 * dlvl => excellent feeling
> 30 + .6 * dlvl => very good feeling
> 20 + .4 * dlvl => good feeling
> 15 + .33 * dlvl => little lucky
> 10 + .2 * dlvl => unsure
> 5 + .1 * dlvl => reasonably safe
> 0 => quiet, peaceful place
= 0 => looks uninteresting

If nothing else of interest was on the level, you'd have a rating of 25, which at dlvl 30 puts you into the "unsure" category (since the rating equals 25, is not greater than it).

[SSK]

Level feelings are determined by the "rating" value of the cave object...
calculate_feeling() in generate.c determines the actual feeling received. If the rating is:

> 50 + dlvl  => superb feeling
> 40 + .8 * dlvl => excellent feeling
> 30 + .6 * dlvl => very good feeling
> 20 + .4 * dlvl => good feeling
> 15 + .33 * dlvl => little lucky
> 10 + .2 * dlvl => unsure
> 5 + .1 * dlvl => reasonably safe
> 0 => quiet, peaceful place
= 0 => looks uninteresting

If nothing else of interest was on the level, you'd have a rating of 25, which at dlvl 30 puts you into the "unsure" category (since the rating equals 25, is not greater than it).

Hi again Derakon, thanks for elucidating the code.

And thanks for verifying that something was incorrect and unintended with my feeling: As you just laid out my feeling should have been "unsure" bordering on "little lucky" (assuming nothing of any interest whatsoever on the level), yet I got "Quiet peaceful place". This is quite clearly incorrect.

The two possibilities are:
A) A bug in the feeling code (suspected)
B) A bug in how it handles recalling the origin of the item. I had just killed a few monsters and I rarely recall which items I picked off the floor vs dropped by monsters--but the program now tells you (nice feature IMHO) an item's origin when you do "I" on it. I sort of thought the slippers had been lying on the floor, and the program confirmed I found it lying on the floor vs dropped.

As an aside (gameplay opinion vs bug report) I think footwear of speed deserves more intelligent handling (I would argue for variable power rating depending on the speed boost, like say (15 + 2*Pval) which would have given my +9 slippers a rating of 33, and I wish pits/nests weren't so highly rated by this system--I find them more annoying/tedious than helpful, and not nearly as interesting as vaults. When I explore a level with a high feeling rating I am always really disappointed to find a pit/nest.

[scud]

Mac nightly of 23 April:

As soon as I get a bit of cash I start to stock up on magic books. With the aid of a very fortuitous PoExp I'm now at level 28, but in my 4-5 'shopping trips' I'm yet to encounter anything beyond Conjurings and Tricks. Half the time the Mage Shop only has had only a single copy of Magic for Beginners. I've never seen the like before... is this a deliberate move to make me 'earn' my books? Can't find mention of it on TRAC.

Also, I haven't yet seen a Restore Item. Did they exist on 23 April? Will they exist in future nightlies? The TRAC entry isn't entirely clear to me.

Lastly, something that's been bugging me for a while: I've targeted something; I've thrown a few arrows or a bit of magic its way, then had mild second thoughts and wanted to Stone to Mud my way into a wall. I can't do it without unchecking the 'use last target by default' option, but I'm *sure* that until a few months ago you were asked for a direction when invoking StoM.

a) can StoM be made to override the targeting fix?

b) shouldn't StoM actually cause some damage to the first non-shard resistant beastie it meets, rather than knock holes in walls behind them? I'm not asking for StoM to become a viable offensive weapon, but it seems like an odd behaviour.

[Max Stats]

Also, I haven't yet seen a Restore Item. Did they exist on 23 April? Will they exist in future nightlies? The TRAC entry isn't entirely clear to me.

Issue tracker sez they were removed as of 4/23.

Lastly, something that's been bugging me for a while: I've targeted something; I've thrown a few arrows or a bit of magic its way, then had mild second thoughts and wanted to Stone to Mud my way into a wall. I can't do it without unchecking the 'use last target by default' option, but I'm *sure* that until a few months ago you were asked for a direction when invoking StoM.

a) can StoM be made to override the targeting fix?

You can abort your target by pressing '* <Escape>" to make it easier than going into the options menu and navigating it. (As a side note, there has been some effort made to pare down the options menu. I wonder if anyone normally plays with "Use old target by default" off. Could this option be another "target" for elimination, so that it would be forced on at all times?)

b) shouldn't StoM actually cause some damage to the first non-shard resistant beastie it meets, rather than knock holes in walls behind them? I'm not asking for StoM to become a viable offensive weapon, but it seems like an odd behaviour.

Some monsters are vulnerable to StoM, but they have to be explicitly made vulnerable to it in order to take damage. It does seem a bit odd that the beam penetrates the monster without effect if it isn't vulnerable.

[scud]

Thanks Max.

Not sure why I picked on shards; perhaps it should be something damper. I envisage StoM as a deluxe Kärcher pressure washer.

I agree with what seems to be the popular opinion, namely that restored Mice and Dogs are overpowered. However an unrestored Mouse is absolute junk and should be taken outside and shot. A good Dog seems a valid option in the very early game, but again becomes worthless at the first sign of a half decent 'magical' weapon.

[Max Stats]

A good Dog seems a valid option in the very early game, but again becomes worthless at the first sign of a half decent 'magical' weapon.

That is exactly how I find them to be in the game, I will use them for awhile; the armor penalty is negligible, and protection from fear is quite useful early on, but once you find another remotely useful ring, they become worthless.

This is in contrast to real life dogs, who are useful for their entire existence, if for nothing else as someone who always thinks you are totally awesome no matter what.

[Derakon]

=Mouse is, currently, only really useful for mages and maybe priests that have gotten Orb of Draining and haven't found anything better yet. Something should probably be done here, but I don't know what.

[SSK]

=Mouse is, currently, only really useful for mages and maybe priests that have gotten Orb of Draining and haven't found anything better yet. Something should probably be done here, but I don't know what.

Well, they used not to exist if ya get my drift...

-Oh I caught one other pluralization error if the Devs are looking--Crebain: I believe the correct pluralization is "Crebain", not "Crebains".

-And another typo: description of Calris: "This sword has runes of power incused on its ornate hint,"...

I would also like autosquelch enabled to handle Pval quality settings. If I am using a +4 Wisdom amulet, I'd like to autosquelch all Wisdom amulets +3 and lower for instance...

[fph]

Oh I caught one other pluralization error if the Devs are looking--Crebain: I believe the correct pluralization is also "Crebain", not "Crebains".

Crebain (singular: craban) were a large species of crow that inhabited the land of Dunland during the Third Age.

Looks like you're right, but the singular needs to be changed too.

I am not a Tolkien expert (nor I play one on TV) but this makes sense, since it's the same ending as Dunadan/Dunedain.

[SSK]

Looks like you're right, but the singular needs to be changed too.

I am not a Tolkien expert (nor I play one on TV) but this makes sense, since it's the same ending as Dunadan/Dunedain.

Nice one FPH, didn't realize the singular was craban.

Actually I think that's because it never appears (it's been a number of years since I read the books)--people always refer to them in the plural--"Look! Crebain!" or as a group--"We were spotted by a flock of crebain".

[myshkin]

Hi again Derakon, thanks for elucidating the code.

And thanks for verifying that something was incorrect and unintended with my feeling: As you just laid out my feeling should have been "unsure" bordering on "little lucky" (assuming nothing of any interest whatsoever on the level), yet I got "Quiet peaceful place". This is quite clearly incorrect.

The two possibilities are:
A) A bug in the feeling code (suspected)
B) A bug in how it handles recalling the origin of the item. I had just killed a few monsters and I rarely recall which items I picked off the floor vs dropped by monsters--but the program now tells you (nice feature IMHO) an item's origin when you do "I" on it. I sort of thought the slippers had been lying on the floor, and the program confirmed I found it lying on the floor vs dropped.

I took a quick look at the code responsible for cave generation and level rating, and I don't see any obvious problems. Generating an ego item via wiz mode acquirement does indeed increase the level rating, though not the level feeling (since it happened after cave generation time). Do you have a savefile with the player still on the level with the slippers of speed?

As an aside (gameplay opinion vs bug report) I think footwear of speed deserves more intelligent handling (I would argue for variable power rating depending on the speed boost, like say (15 + 2*Pval) which would have given my +9 slippers a rating of 33, and I wish pits/nests weren't so highly rated by this system--I find them more annoying/tedious than helpful, and not nearly as interesting as vaults. When I explore a level with a high feeling rating I am always really disappointed to find a pit/nest.

For what it's worth, the trac ticket about improving level feelings has been open for four years. Lots of good ideas being bandied about, but I think we're not especially close to implementing a change yet.

[SSK]

Do you have a savefile with the player still on the level with the slippers of speed?

Sorry, I moved on--wasn't sure it was improper until after Derakon's reply. BTW Don't think I know how to save what's needed for documentation here. I'm still wearing the slippers, but I don't have a screen shot or savefile with the level feeling. Sigh, I'm sorry. Screen shots would have been nice when reporting the typo and pluralization errors I caught...

For what it's worth, the trac ticket about improving level feelings has been open for four years. Lots of good ideas being bandied about, but I think we're not especially close to implementing a change yet.

Okey doke. I have a "feeling" that's because some might think this is a "feature" discouraging scumming :-)

[myshkin]

Sorry, I moved on--wasn't sure it was improper until after Derakon's reply. BTW Don't think I know how to save what's needed for documentation here. I'm still wearing the slippers, but I don't have a screen shot or savefile with the level feeling. Sigh, I'm sorry. Screen shots would have been nice when reporting the typo and pluralization errors I caught...

The more information the better. I can still get object information from a later savefile, but I cannot verify details about feelings and ratings for old levels. Character dumps and screenshots would also be useful. I assume identifying the slippers still says that they were found on the ground?

Okey doke. I have a "feeling" that's because some might think this is a "feature" discouraging scumming :-)

There are certainly ways to implement level feelings without permitting their use for scumming. See the trac ticket I mentioned above, for example.

[SSK]

The more information the better. I can still get object information from a later savefile, but I cannot verify details about feelings and ratings for old levels. Character dumps and screenshots would also be useful. I assume identifying the slippers still says that they were found on the ground?

OK. How do I do what you need? It won't let me do a screen shot ")" from the "I" screen showing the info for the slippers (indicating they were lying on the floor at DLevel 31), and it says I can't upload the save file since it's an invalid file type... Hmm I'm gonna try a screengrab on my Mac... THERE we go; sheesh so restrictive, it didn't like TIFF.

There are certainly ways to implement level feelings without permitting their use for scumming. See the trac ticket I mentioned above, for example.

Well, I have to admit I liked scumming, though I thought auto-scumming to be an abuse :-P

[myshkin]

OK. How do I do what you need? It won't let me do a screen shot ")" from the "I" screen showing the info for the slippers (indicating they were lying on the floor at DLevel 31), and it says I can't upload the save file since it's an invalid file type... Hmm I'm gonna try a screengrab on my Mac... THERE we go; sheesh so restrictive, it didn't like TIFF.

For savefiles, it may be easiest to create a ticket in trac and attach the savefile there. Beyond that, screenshots aren't necessary, generally; character dumps should be sufficient. Press 'C' and then 'f'. The game will write the dump to $HOME/Library/Preferences/Angband on Mac OS X.

Well, I have to admit I liked scumming, though I thought auto-scumming to be an abuse :-P

And yet there are other people who miss auto-scumming.