Playing humans

[Timo Pietilä]

I think there are many more challenging race/class combos than human anything. Dwarf mage, gnome paladin, hobbit priest. HP make a difference.

Paladin and priest selections above are not challenges. Hobbit has high WIS, which makes it good as priest, and paladin is basically upgraded version of warrior. Dwarf as mage? I don't know, weak as mage, but compensated by good STR, CON and better hit die might make living easy enough for them to survive until they can get the much needed INT bonuses.

Elf priest might be the worst possible combo. Actually I think elf anything is worse than its human equal. -1 to STR, -2 to CON and worse hit die than humans makes it the challenge race.

[fizzix]

Elf priest might be the worst possible combo. Actually I think elf anything is worse than its human equal. -1 to STR, -2 to CON and worse hit die than humans makes it the challenge race.

you're absolutely right, I meant elf priest not hobbit priest.

[PowerDiver]

Dwarf as mage? I don't know, weak as mage, but compensated by good STR, CON and better hit die might make living easy enough for them to survive until they can get the much needed INT bonuses.

I like dwarf mages, but they do not seem popular. I've got 3 of the 4 winners on the vanilla ladder

[ewert]

Having played troll mages a couple of times for the HP con and regen, dwarves getting rBl instead of regen and lesser penalty on INT makes me wanna say that dwarf mages are just fine.

[Magnate]

How about giving humans +1 to each stat, call that a "standard" and reduce everyone else stats by -1? Dunadans would still be better than ordinary humans, but not that much.

If we go in Tolkien way, half-elves should be basically same as Dunadans, but with elven baseline IE. way better than they are now.

My suggestion was intending to give players a choice about where the extra points go - something that Dunedain do not get.

[PowerDiver]

My suggestion was intending to give players a choice about where the extra points go - something that Dunedain do not get.

Effectively they do. Any set of stats you can create with a human with 28 birth points I can exceed with a Dunadan with 24 birth points. At least, I assume I can. I have not actually checked.

[Magnate]

Effectively they do. Any set of stats you can create with a human with 28 birth points I can exceed with a Dunadan with 24 birth points. At least, I assume I can. I have not actually checked.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

But that says, the +4 build points means humans are still notably weaker than Dunadan...which is what one wants.

BUT, odds are, that +4 build points would commonly mean +1 to 1, or at most 2, stats that you need to push for your class...and that's all. Build points != stat bonuses. I have a 20 BP dunadan priest, and 24 BP human priest, onscreen right now in 2 separate windows. With priest, Wis is crucial. The human's maxed out at 18/30, costing me 12 BPs. The Dunadan's at 18/40 for 8 BPs. The only way a human's +4 BPs == +4 to any score of his choice, is in a very generalist build, where you're not buying any one starting score over 16 (before race/class bonuses)...probably paladin or ranger.

One could give humans +2 or +3 to a particular stat, based on guild...Int for mage, Wis for priest/pal, Dex for rogue/ranger, Str for warrior. One could let the user pick, but it seems like this would require a separate screen, ergo a fair bit more work, than just tying it to the guild.

[Hariolor]

Soooo, maybe +4 build points should be more like +16?

[Derakon]

Only if you want humans to really be Dunedan.

[Hariolor]

customizable dunedain, to be specifc

[Magnate]

customizable dunedain, to be specifc

Yeah, I'm beginning to think this wasn't such a great idea. Maybe we can just go with the traditional "+1 Luck" ... oh wait, we don't have Luck yet.

Now here's a thought: instead of giving humans extra *stat* points to spend, what about giving them *skill* points? Every class currently has hard-coded starting skills. What if humans could boost one of their skills by, say, 10%? Melee or shooting or devices or disarming or ...

Yeah I know. I'll go back to Sangband.

[ewert]

Lets not forget giving humies extra stat points in creation is only an early-game perk. Would make the race a good learning race, fast xp, better customization at start. Since, ya know, creation stat points ain't +maximize mode stat points ... of course in maximize mode off, that would make humies quite powerful.

[buzzkill]

You could give humans immunity to insta death (x1). They first time insta death occurs, they survive at 0 HP. Yeah, it makes no sense thematically and it's a stupid idea, but...

[Nomad]

How about just giving humans more starting money? I dunno, I might be more tempted to play as a human if I could buy better gear than other characters from the start.