Ridiculous death due, in my opinion, to flawed design.

[Derakon]

Yeah, I would've destructed in that situation. Even the 96% success rate on a destruction staff is better than the death rate on teleport at those deaths IMO. Though of course if it's a matter of life or death you should be using a scroll of destruction.

[fyonn]

T.level, destruct, create doors, etc. I actually completely stop using teleport self at some point, usually when I got my first *Destruction* item.

well, T.level (via deep descent) was what stuck me next to the ethereal hounds in the first place, so doing it again seems as dangerour as T.self (except perhaps that I'd get the first move, which I guess is a valid point).

and I've never liked destruction. never liked earthquakes etc. messes up the map, but perhaps I should get over my sense of neatness?

[fizzix]

well, T.level (via deep descent) was what stuck me next to the ethereal hounds in the first place, so doing it again seems as dangerour as T.self (except perhaps that I'd get the first move, which I guess is a valid point).

and I've never liked destruction. never liked earthquakes etc. messes up the map, but perhaps I should get over my sense of neatness?

The first move is key. That's by far the most important part.

Ethereal hounds aren't nearly as dangerous as gravity or time hounds. Each unresisted nether breath is only 60 hp I think, so you can easily survive multiple breaths. Failing destruction is better than teleporting self. and tele-level is always the safest solution. You can continue teleporting level until you either run out of scrolls or land in a safe spot.

@Derakon: no way 4% of teleports kill you at any depth. If failing the destruction means likely death, teleporting at 0% fail is a much better option than doing something with a 4% fail.

[Derakon]

Fizzix: that really depends on how powerful you are compared to the dungeon level and what all is on that level. If teleporting stands >4% odds of landing you next to a graveyard, then it's more dangerous than trying to use a destruction staff at 96% success rate, IMO. If nothing else, teleport can get you stranded away from parts of the level that you've rendered safe, which means that if you run into trouble again you may well not be able to reach stairs.

Depending on the dungeon layout, you might want to phase door away and then try destruction. That of course depends on if you can rely on phase door taking you out of LOS of most of your enemies.

And fyonn, destruction is the only guaranteed escape in the game that can't land you into hot water immediately afterwards. Yes, it makes a hash of the level, but levels are easily replaced.

[Fendell Orcbane]

I don't consider myself to be an expert, but I would say I'm relatively experienced having played the game for about 15 years and having won twice. that said, I just lost my clvl 47 hobbit mage on dlvl 71.

a scroll of deep descent dropped me next to a pack of ether hounds. decided they were a bit too dangerous so I teleported away and landed next to a pack of time hounds who were all awake. without even getting the chance to move I got time breathe'd to death.

that felt to me as somewhat of an inevitable death that I could little about, but it's the nature of the game. sometimes bad things happen. what can you do?

dave

That is heart breaking. But that is a risk that a lot of us take if we don't want to leave the level. I'd agree with you, its just part of the game.

[Fendell Orcbane]

It boggles my mind that someone could play a 39th and also a 26th level character both without learning about auto-move. I'm even more shocked that someone would have the patience to put in that much play time single-stepping through Angband's enormous dungeons.

Are you sure you're not Trolling us?

DUde this is the first time I have even heard of auto move. And I have 3 wins to my name. But I detect a lot. I actually did lose a character by just holding the button down and not thinking. But I knew that the flaw was my lack of attention. It was ME and not the game that sucked.

[chris]

DUde this is the first time I have even heard of auto move. And I have 3 wins to my name. But I detect a lot. I actually did lose a character by just holding the button down and not thinking. But I knew that the flaw was my lack of attention. It was ME and not the game that sucked.

I think something like:

****LOW HITPOINT WARNING**** Press 'Y' to continue

would just prevent these sorts of problems. Of course, you should only prompt when crossing your predetermined threshold.

At least 5 times per game I get the prompt to confirm committing suicide (fat fingers!) so the idea of forcing an unusual keypress to continue works well. I have yet to accidentally end it all ...

[Fendell Orcbane]

I think something like:

****LOW HITPOINT WARNING**** Press 'Y' to continue

would just prevent these sorts of problems. Of course, you should only prompt when crossing your predetermined threshold.

At least 5 times per game I get the prompt to confirm committing suicide (fat fingers!) so the idea of forcing an unusual keypress to continue works well. I have yet to accidentally end it all ...

That is a good idea, but I still maintain that players really need to pay attention. I actually got hit once or twice. I should have noticed the Crystal Drake with the ESp I had on before he breathed on me.

Why make things easier for chumps? Of course that is just my opinion.

[fizzix]

Yeah, I would've destructed in that situation. Even the 96% success rate on a destruction staff is better than the death rate on teleport at those deaths IMO. Though of course if it's a matter of life or death you should be using a scroll of destruction.

If you've already explored the level and know there's a graveyard there, then teleporting is risky. If you haven't explored the level, the closest you can wind up is in the moat. Your positioning would have to be such that a Reaver can tunnel to you immediately opening the graveyard to your LoS. Very unlikely.

[Timo Pietilä]

DUde this is the first time I have even heard of auto move. And I have 3 wins to my name. But I detect a lot. I actually did lose a character by just holding the button down and not thinking. But I knew that the flaw was my lack of attention. It was ME and not the game that sucked.

Running is mentioned in help files. The "Run command" IE period in standard and comma in roguelike set is mentioned more than once, in "playing the game" and "command descriptions". Both also mention using shift as run key.

Help is helpful. My advice to everyone that has not yet read those is that you should read it through at least once completely and explore what different commands do.

[Atarlost]

It's just that the more you learn, the more that learning hurts, because you get to sit back and happily navigate through sixty levels of stuff you recognise before you get your chance to prod something new.

This is the problem. Trial and error gameplay isn't exactly fun for most people. This is something that would never be tolerated in a modern commercial game. The only reason it survives in Angband is that we're all crazy, but the OP's reaction is "right" from a modern game design standpoint.

The lack of modern casual games in the TBRPG genre aggravates things. If you want an RPG that is humble enough to task switch you're pretty much limited to roguelikes. Especially if what I've hear about DOSBOX not working in post-XP Windows is accurate.

[bio_hazard]

I've decided to play with the cheat option for monster knowledge on. I'd rather enjoy the game and progress a little farther than I would normally than be competitive with other players. I sometimes play on the train during my commute, and can't access the spoilers on ooooook when I'm off the grid, so to speak.

[fyonn]

That is heart breaking. But that is a risk that a lot of us take if we don't want to leave the level. I'd agree with you, its just part of the game.

I was a little annoyed myself but then again, if dave the hobbit mage hadn't died, then dave the half-troll paladin wouldn't be running around.

dave

[fyonn]

the OP's reaction is "right" from a modern game design standpoint.

ahh, but then angband isn't a modern game.

and lets face it, it's still a big leap from the old text adventure "hitch-hikers guide to the galaxy" where you could walk dead through the whole game because you forgot to pick up one item at the start of the game that you can't go back and fetch!

now I'm not against improving things where it's warranted, but I do think that creatures in angband have to be deadly, otherwise there's no challenge and no feeling of achievement when you beat them.

as for the learnean hydra, well, it is a unique and thus should always be treated with caution until you know what it can do. the non-unique hydra's breathe fire and poison, so the unique for should be suspected of doing both, but with more damage. as it happens it's a lot more, but that's hardly surprising. it's not the only unique which is a lot harder than the top non-unique.

I'm not sure I've lost a character to that unique, but I've had a several fights with it where I had to run.

I still think that the toughest uniques are the angels. azriel has always been a real pain for me.

dave

[Atarlost]

I disagree. Angband is modern in that it has not only been continuously maintained, but is currently in serious development. Age isn't an excuse when the current version is so new.

The only excuse left is that Angband is a niche game for crazy people who want their games to generate rather than relieve stress. That's all well and good, but it doesn't excuse looking down on casual gamers. Especially when there's nothing well publicized in the RPG genre that combines casual gameplay with casual system requirements. Non-roguelike RPGs take too much writing for the OSS community to produce and roguelikes are inexplicably wedded to hardcore trial and error gameplay and permadeath. Non-indie developers persistently refuse to even consider putting out anything with system requirements suited to casual gaming except grindfest MMOs.