Randarts...

[Fendell Orcbane]

I've been thinking about Randart games for awhile and I'm pretty ambivalent about them. On one had they would seem cool if you are getting bored with V. On the other had I sort of don't feel that they are fair, because how can you compare your character with other characters that are playing standard V? Granted this could be said for different versions as well.

So that is how I feel, but how do the rest of you feel on this matter?
And having said all that I do know that its the player and not his magic items that win or lose the game. Hell I died with both Ringil and Feanor. How does that happen? But then again the very next game I found The One Ring: ) which in my opinion is pretty much the best thing that I've ever had.

[Taha]

Most randart games seem harder than normal artifact games. I like it for the variations that keep things interesting.

But the whole concepts of fair and comparable don't apply to this game anyway. Luck plays such a huge role; if you can find feanor and ringil in one game, how do you compare that to a game where you find no boots of speed until level 90? It's just about making do with what you find.
________
BLCKPOIZEN

[PowerDiver]

Your dumps are from 3.1.2v2, in which I believe randarts had an artificial extra rarity put on them. That may be why you find the games harder.

If you look at my most recent dump, I have base speed+40 and 3 immunities and a 6d6 slay evil weapon with all but rChaos covered. That's not atypical for randart games.

I think randart games are generally easier, but occasionally harder, than standart games, now that the extra rarity has been removed.

[Derakon]

I've been thinking about Randart games for awhile and I'm pretty ambivalent about them. On one had they would seem cool if you are getting bored with V. On the other had I sort of don't feel that they are fair, because how can you compare your character with other characters that are playing standard V? Granted this could be said for different versions as well.

And why is it necessary that you be able to compare your character with other characters? The only times we compete, we do so using the same savefile, and thus the same set of artifacts. Everything else is personal.

[Fendell Orcbane]

And why is it necessary that you be able to compare your character with other characters? The only times we compete, we do so using the same savefile, and thus the same set of artifacts. Everything else is personal.

Well there is a ladder and all. I do agree that it is a personal thing but on the other hand it is a way to judge how far you have come or how far you have to go in terms of playing skill.

[Derakon]

Well there is a ladder and all. I do agree that it is a personal thing but on the other hand it is a way to judge how far you have come or how far you have to go in terms of playing skill.

I'm not willing to sacrifice randarts just so that a third-party website can compare characters more "fairly". Especially since everything in the game still comes down to the RNG by a massive degree.

That said, randarts should still be of comparable power to standarts. They should just be, yannow, random.

[ewert]

Aside from weapons, I actually think standarts are maybe easier than randarts.

Now WEAPONS, that is where some sickening randart stuff happens.

PS. Pre-statgain +8 wis/speed boots for half-troll paladin with rDis. I thought I was gonna wear that forever. Then found +9wis/speed with rDis, mwahahaha (and some low stuff 1-2 on both too)

[Magnate]

Aside from weapons, I actually think standarts are maybe easier than randarts.

Now WEAPONS, that is where some sickening randart stuff happens.

PS. Pre-statgain +8 wis/speed boots for half-troll paladin with rDis. I thought I was gonna wear that forever. Then found +9wis/speed with rDis, mwahahaha (and some low stuff 1-2 on both too)

You found TWO pairs of boots with +8 or +9 WIS *and* speed, in the same game?? Weird.

Anyway, Derakon is right, the total power of a set of randarts should be within 3% of the total power of the standard artifact set, so feel free to compare as much as you like. Whether you're lucky enough to *find* that 6d6 Morgoth-killer or those +9 WIS/Speed boots is another matter ... but that's no different to comparing one game where you find Ringil at 1000' to another one where you don't ...

[ewert]

And the 2nd pair of +9 had also good +hit +dmg. =P For paladin. =P It was just too nutty.

[fizzix]

You found TWO pairs of boots with +8 or +9 WIS *and* speed, in the same game?? Weird.

Anyway, Derakon is right, the total power of a set of randarts should be within 3% of the total power of the standard artifact set, so feel free to compare as much as you like. Whether you're lucky enough to *find* that 6d6 Morgoth-killer or those +9 WIS/Speed boots is another matter ... but that's no different to comparing one game where you find Ringil at 1000' to another one where you don't ...

Here are the boots from my most recent game. There are also 2 with over +8 Wis and Speed:


The Pair of Leather Boots of Menya [2,+7]
-----------------------------------------
+8 wisdom, tunneling, speed.
Provides resistance to acid, cold.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Prevents paralysis.


Min Level 27, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 214, 1.8 lbs


The Pair of Mithril Shod Boots of Amenor [8,+21]
------------------------------------------------
+3 wisdom, constitution.
Provides immunity to acid.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

When activated, it detects traps nearby.
Takes 49 to 54 turns to recharge.


Min Level 20, Max Level 124, Generation chance 78, Power 156, 3.2 lbs


The Pair of Leather Boots of Lothith (+4,+2) [2,+19]
----------------------------------------------------
+13 speed.
Provides resistance to fire, confusion, nether.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Aggravates creatures nearby.

When aimed, it grants fire resistance for d20+20 turns and creates a fire ball of
damage 80.
Takes 90 to 110 turns to recharge.


Min Level 40, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 317, 2.0 lbs


The Pair of Leather Boots 'Gaere' [2,+18]
-----------------------------------------
+11 wisdom, speed.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.


Min Level 32, Max Level 127, Generation chance 4, Power 256, 2.0 lbs


The Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Uniel [7,+16]
---------------------------------------------
+7 speed.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Sustains your life force.


Min Level 19, Max Level 122, Generation chance 82, Power 153, 6.0 lbs


The Pair of Leather Boots of Embangwar (+8,+0) [2,+21]
------------------------------------------------------
+13 tunneling, speed.
Provides resistance to chaos.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.


Min Level 38, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 303, 2.0 lbs


dump here:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10561

I was a priest, so the +11 wis/speed boots came in very handy.

edit: There was also a +10 speed / wis weapon, a +13 speed / strength weapon, a +11 speed / wis ring and a +10 speed amulet

[EpicMan]

I prefer randarts to standarts because they are a logical extension of ego items. While the uber standards (Ringil, etc) are very rare and are special finds, moist artifacts are common enough you can plan on finding them (phial, whatever helm has the resist blindness, etc) almost every single game.

With Randarts, I have absolutely no idea what my endgame gear is going to look like, and I can't even depend on scumming for Thengel or whatever to fill in a hole in my gear. Instead of set items, randarts are super-ego items.

I'd also go for some randomized unique foes as well (maybe add some random flags to the orc uniques to give them some flavor, etc), but the consensus on that seems to be it's a variant thing.

[Magnate]

Blimey, that's rather too much speed on boots (every pair except one). I rather hope that set is an outlier.

[Taha]

My last game the max artifact boots were a +10 speed, AC +40, nothing else. All the others were far lower speed, and generally pathetic. The game before that, +9 INT / +9 speed was pretty nice, but those were the only features on them - and while +9 int sounds great, they showed up deep enough so that I was already at max. That set is far, far better than any I have seen.
________
Roll a joint

[fizzix]

Blimey, that's rather too much speed on boots (every pair except one). I rather hope that set is an outlier.

The power rating for +8 Wis, +8 speed seems a tad low, doesn't it?

[Magnate]

The power rating for +8 Wis, +8 speed seems a tad low, doesn't it?

What, the 214? That seems about right - don't forget how little WIS is worth to 4/6 of characters.